A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn’t great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don’t promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
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Got the wife a grapheneOS pixel, she likes it and the adblock as well. But can’t let go of Facebook , Spotify ,WhatsApp etc. Small steps
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My spouse is almost the opposite of me in the privacy/FOSS realm.
They use TikTok and other social media, don’t mind ads, use Windows, love Chrome and their Macbook, etc.
We’ve talked about privacy and FOSS a lot. They have the “I don’t care if China/corpos/NSA mine my data, I have nothing to hide.” Plus they like targeted ads and algorithmic content suggestions.
We have a lot of mutual respect for each other and I don’t force my views on them, and they know I won’t use certain apps. I gently suggest FOSS apps to them and sometimes they use them, sometimes not.
They also don’t object to watching shows and movies with me that I “aquire totally legally” because I don’t use streaming services.
I have told them that any children we have, I want to raise with a “FOSS first” philosophy, and they are cool with that.
Ultimately, I want my kids to have the choice of what software they use, FOSS or not. But for my part, they will know that I will only support the FOSS stuff, if they want to go proprietary, that’s on them.
You are lucky to have multiple wives.😉
?
When a lot of us went to school, “they” “them” was only used to talk about a plural of people
It’s not exclusively singular or plural. That hasn’t changed in more than 50 years
the singular use is so old, when it was first introduced, “they” was still spelled with a fucking thorn!
I’ve also discussed with my partner that they’re welcome to use Facebook but I strongly object to putting photos of children on there until they’re old enough to make their own decisions.
I’ve pointed out that posting publicly is purely for vanity reasons unless they’ve made a conscious decision to have exclusively friends and family. In other words, you don’t need to please people who don’t matter.
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This transphobic mf’er doesn’t even get that saying “they” is protecting both their and their spouse’s privacy — on the damn privacy community! Smh
It’s a bigger sacrifice for her to come to my side on these issues, or even just meet me in the middle, then it is for me to do the opposite. Also, at the beginning of our relationship I was nowhere near as privacy-conscious as I am now, so I feel it is very unfair for me to turn around years into a relationship and start making demands of the other person. At the same time, she is respectful of my individual choices and doesn’t mock them even though she doesn’t see the value in them herself (which is the same for many aspects of our lives). We come from significantly different backgrounds and have very different perspectives on a whole range of things (politics, religion, lifestyle, etc), but we both see beyond those superficial differences to the person at the core. That’s what we fell in love with, not all the other stuff which we are repeatedly told is so very important in our increasingly polarised society.
Please detail the arcane wizardry which allowed you to achieve the respectful of your choices part you described, because it is the only way your story differs from my own situation.
It’s hard to say why we are like that with each other. Sometimes I think the fact that we faced so many unusual and difficult challenges early on in our relationship has made us less susceptible to these relatively normal problems that every couple experiences. Even the first few months (which are carefree for most couples) were filled with big commitments and sacrifices for us, so compared to that stuff everything else is so minor that it barely registers as an issue. Also, I think she is an unusually kind person and I am an unusually laid-back person and that is a combination that rarely leads to conflict.
I’m sorry I can’t be more helpful, but it’s not really something we actively worked at. Are you saying that you and your partner are also from opposite worlds but haven’t found a way to reconcile some of your differences?
Yes, I think that’s fairly accurate.
It’s really that, while I’ve respected her choice to not participate in any of the practices/protocols I’ve recommended, she doesn’t see my own involvement in them as anything more than a waste of time. Even more so, she’s said she worries about the way it might change me into a paranoid person (conspiracy theorist).
Which feels a little disrespectful of the beliefs I’ve chosen. Like being told you’re worshipping the wrong god, by your partner.
@starlord Why does she think you could become a conspiracy theorist? I have had random non-tech people tell me that they felt like their devices are watching them or listening in.
I really can’t say, we simply don’t agree. I say “I’d just rather my data belongs to me and curate who I share it with” and she hears “GIANT SPACE LIZARDS ARE TRYING TO MELT THE AMAZON” and just pictures me wearing a tin-foil hat.
I once asked her “If someone was standing outside our window, watching and taking notes, would you draw the curtains?” and she spent more time arguing that the metaphor was ridiculous and irrelevant than actually rationalizing the point I was trying to make. Literally no argument I’ve seen works on her. She just doesn’t agree.
Is it a problem that she disagrees? I said my partner respects my individual privacy choices insofar as she doesn’t mock or inhibit them, but I’m certain she doesn’t actually agree. She probably thinks I’m crazy too. I guess for me the important bit is that she doesn’t outwardly project any of that. And in turn, I don’t try to argue the merits of my beliefs with her because I think the arguing itself is often the problematic aspect as opposed to the belief.
When you persist with attempts to convince someone of something that you know they disagree with you completely on, you risk coming off as a lunatic. My partner believes in an afterlife and a God, but since she never attempts to convince me of these beliefs I am happy to just accept them. However, when other people who are religious subtly (or blatantly) try to convert me I feel annoyed and see them as nutjobs.
For most people in my life, I don’t actually know if they share my beliefs. But I also don’t care if they do, because many of those issues aren’t relevant to our relationship. The other day I was in a thread about climate change where Poster A mentioned they had a friend who was a sceptic, and Poster B replied “why are you friends with a fuckwit?”. But the way I see it, climate change is a) something I don’t discuss in detail with many people I know and b) isn’t relevant to what I enjoy about those relationships. So even if I were to discover that a friend from work is a climate sceptic, I wouldn’t actually care. I think that’s one of the keys to maintaining healthy relationships with people. Work out what is actually relevant, so even when other disagreements arise or people inevitably change, you can still appreciate the key aspects of the relationship that are still there and the real reason why you have a connection with this person.
I suppose we’ve reached a “agree to disagree and don’t talk about it as a result” status, which I’m willing to accept, sorta choosing which hill I wanna die on, ya know?
It’s just that I wish there was more support, whereas I feel instead that there’s ridicule or disrespect because her standpoint comes across more as “I’m right and you are wrong so I think less of you for it.”
But, focusing on the privacy topic rather than relationship advice, I really just wish there were a way for me to present her with a case that allowed her to validate my arguments and respect them, even if she doesn’t agree. I think that’s just asking too much because there isn’t a single justification I’ve ever put forth with which she could understand my opinion.
No privacy supporting suggestion works with her because she simply doesn’t value it. I guess I could be projecting expectations, but I think I’m valid in wanting my views respected, even if they aren’t conceded.
What I’ve done is set up a default DNS block list for the whole home internet, and given others their own. I’m using NextDNS, so profiles are easy to set up for individual people with different tastes. I have my own that is relatively strict, and I have lighter configurations for others so that less things are blocked for them. I think you can do a similar thing with a PiHole, but I’m not entirely sure on that.
I’d like to look into that further for PiHole which is what I use. I get a lot of complaints from the mrs so she usually just defaults to turning off Wi-Fi on her phone.
It’s pretty easy, honestly. You can create rule groups and just assign clients to any combination of those groups.
Im in that situation but instead of stubbornly refusing she just does not want to invest the times or effort into privacy. But she was cool with me doing a few things like changing her to different mail providers, changing her browser to firefox and installing a few add-ons that help without being intrusive. But other than that she doesn’t really care enough. She uses Instagram and all those apps and I won’t try convince her. It is her life and her decision.
However the topic has a different tone when it comes to our kids. We discussed this before having kids and agreed on rules we both are okay with. Things like no pics on social media or WhatsApp of any of them. Or which apps they get to use at what age etc. Luckily when it comes to them my wife is more willing to invest time and effort into privacy.
even if you are someone who subscribes to the mindset “nothing to hire, nothing to fear”, kids can’t make that decision yet, themselves so I’ve always found it nice when people don’t include their kids on socials until they’re at least a teenager or so, granted I don’t have kids, this is just from a bystanders pov.
family vlog channels back in the day always left a bad taste in my mouth.
Yeah that’s how I feel about ads targeting children (even when the products are intended for children): they are not yet equipped to look at the ads critically and recognize when they’re being manipulated.
I’d they’re compassionate, have them watch The Social Dilemma
I’ve been surprised by the number of people who dont care about privacy but deleted their Facebook accounts after seeing that film
I highly doubt that this will work in my case, as my wife only watches romcoms, but I’ll give it a try.
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can I… hear her argument? I just wanna know what fallacy has concocted here lol. not trying to be insulting to your wifi or anything, just bantering a little bit, I’ve come across some that believe adblocking is piracy though, and I’m curious.
Some people like targeted advertising because they enjoy being shown things that are potentially relevant to their interests.
My wife sends me products she finds interesting and they all contain the facebook tracker at the end. It is a scientific fact that women are better consumers, hence ads are mostly created for them. My wife hates ads while watching videos, but taps on them during scrolling all the time. Fortunately I haven’t been asked to get her off pi-hole. It is tricky with ads, as you think that they are offering a solution for something, but in many cases they are establishing a desire you did not have before.
that’s crazy to me idk. merely seeing an ad annoys me enough to stop whatever I was doing. my inner contrarian avoids any product I’ve seen advertised.
It annoys me as well and I rather not visit any website that refuses my visit because of my adblocker. However, ads work with your unconscious and unfortunately, they work on everyone, that’s why the best is to avoid them.
She clicks on instagram ads. I know my wife does.
Instagram hosts their own ads so she can still have an adblocker and… shudders click the Instagram ads.
We really do live in a society
You know I don’t actually mind sharing pretty much all my info if it’s for the right reasons, as I have a deep trust in people in general, and only a few are authentic asshats in my experience.
The thing is that I also value my freedom and I don’t appreciate people not genuinely asking for my consent to share. At the end of the day it is my data and I decide what will happen to it.
So sure, I am being tracked all over the place and there’s no stopping it, but for me it’s more a matter of integrity to express my desire for consent. In other words it’s not necessarily effective, but it’s the intent and expression that counts for me.
I don’t try to convince her. I’ve set up her Firefox with ublock because she kept complaining about ads, otherwise I leave her to it. In return, she doesn’t try to convince me to become a vegetarian.
This is where I’m at. If I push it any more, she will turn off wifi on her phone and complain.
I’ve tried getting her to move to my hosted email instead of gmail, but she refused. She’s been wanting an Alexa speaker and even has the kids on board. That’s where most of my energy goes for picking my battles at this stage.
You should become vegan if you care about the future.
Lmao, always pop up uninvited
I’ll keep eating my steaks, thank you very much 🥩
I actually tried. Read up on nutrients, cooked all my own meals from diverse, fresh ingredients, etc.
It didn’t work. I was always hungry, my whole day revolved around food and after 4 weeks, my hair started to fall out.
I still remember the feeling I had when I ate the first steak again after giving up. It was pure joy.
I admire every vegan, I eat meat less than once a week, but my body just doesn’t seem to work on a vegan diet.
if your hair was “falling out” just because you tried to have a vegan diet, either you were doing something really wrong or something’s wrong with your body. Did you see a doctor or a nutritionist?
Yes, turned out I’m gluten intolerant and allergic to most nuts and fruit, which makes a vegan diet pretty much impossible
(Seitan = gluten, and nuts are essential for Omega3, Selenium, Calcium and Magnesium)
Believe me, I’ve done my research.
i’m sorry to read that.
I had a friend who had to go back to eating meat after +20 years of vegetarianism because of health problems like yours. It wasn’t a joy for him as it was an ethical choice.
good luck
An agressive DNS and packet inspection based adblocker (to block CNAME cloaking attempts to bypass blocklists and share cookies when blocked), and teaching my SO how to bypass it to play her mobile games, or load websites that are blocked unintentionally.
Despite being a Chrome user, she shows an interest in Firefox due to the effectiveness of its addons, pop-up blocking, and our steamlinks actually shows the Netflix/APV stream when watching from Firefox, whereas Chrome shows a black screen.
TikTok and Instagram are accessed very, very sparingly in the household.
My parents on the other hand, keep trying to convince me to come back onto WhatsApp, which is a hard no for me personally. Ever since it stopped working on one of my devices a while back, I haven’t exactly missed it, and I don’t want Facebook-owned apps on my mobile anymore out of principle.
I imagine it being quite difficult to explain the many, many reasons to them behind my reasoning for caring about who stores my personal data, tracks my personal activity for purposes that don’t benefit myself, and what apps go on my device.
What good is your privacy of those closest to you can be used to track you.
In short. I won’t force them, my spouse, to use privacy apps if she does not want it. I’ve accepted that absolute privacy in my case is impossible. So I use privacy apps because I like them not because I don’t want to be tracked. Heck, even my credit card tracks me, a service i cannot continue living without.
For 9 years I’ve done nothing about it.
There were many reasons why. Now, though, she wants to take the first steps so we will start working on it together.
She switched to Signal and quit FB years ago, so some parts of the process are taken care of. I don’t think she will give up her GMail…
you can set up email forwarding from Gmail to a new account if that makes things any easier for her
setting home network to fwd all dns through paid nextdns, beyond that just fighting a war of attrition
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First of all, I try to offer her alternative and better ways of doing things. I selfhost a number of services that we both use and she also knows that she can come to me for advice and technical help.
I also got her a hardware key that is used together with a software password manager, to keep her passwords safe.
We also have a rule when it comes to social media. If she wants to post a picture of me, she needs to ask permission first.