A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
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Pretty sure corruption isn’t using wire transfer 🫢 Comes in physical form that can’t be tracked
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So a ban on crypto and CCP like control over all finances?
Are you seriously suggesting me to contact my MEP based on the clickbait title you’ve written? Wow.
Would it make sense to have #CashAwarenessMonth? https://lemmy.ml/post/7968927
all Im thinking of is how payment processors have been acting as legislators lately to outlaw porn.
Thanks, US puritanism.
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why would someone limit me how I can spend my earned and 40% already taxed (taken) money? I gave my life time to earn it, they take half of it and still forbidding me to use it?
Hiding money in anonymous crypto is a way to avoid paying taxes or launder money.
Trump made crypto trading cards so Russia and Saudi Arabia could contribute to him anonymously.
Source?
So if that is a problem, focus and investigate, why I have to do anything with that? And that is US, this is EU.
Three easy payments of $999.99!
The limit is not by single payment but by purchase/receipt.
Isn’t a simple solution to split the purchase then? I will buy the tires for 8000€ and the rest of the car for 9000€.
I know this is nitpicking and they’re not doing this for cases like the above. People targeted by this will have other simple solutions to work around it.
sorry but banning anonymous payments is pretty good for fighting corruption…
True that. The system that we have is the product of many painful lessons, taught to us by global crises and crimes. People, who oppose this system, should stop reading nonsense on reddit and 4chan, and start with books and lectures from educated economists.
so ban it only for government (people and assets) related transactions
But fighting corruption is not a goal I’m ready to pay any prize for.
Russia almost did it. Now it’s finally free of corruption!
Haha , nope. It’s way more corrupt than before. You can even purchase on the dark web a list of items your person of interest bought this year.
After the Panama Papers and everything like it I’ve experienced in my life, I truly believe it doesn’t matter if very wealthy or powerful people are exposed on anything they do unless it involves what Epstein did. Financial crime is not generally of interest, regardless of how interesting it might be to you and me. Sure this can be used to fight corruption, but why is the system corrupt in the first place? Is this really going to be used against those corrupting influences or is it going to be used as another of the many tools in the drug war?
The solution isn’t to do nothing. This post reads like it’s not in good faith. Like it’s trying to promote giving up.
Of course. By suggesting that I don’t think this will do anything about corruption and will if anything be a tool used for corrupt purposes, I don’t mean to suggest that there is nothing to do about corruption. Even though I think the solutions to social and economic problems are rarely solved from the top down, I do think the issues can be addressed bottom up. The people have the power and it’s only by circumstance that some people appear to hold the power.
Putin’s corruption works fine without anonymous payments
i mean does it really? russia is heavily sanctioned to the rest of the western world.
Putin is not Russia
Consumers payments deserves their privacy, but business ones needs absolutely to be fully traceable.
Could it be possible to use two different yet identical interchangeable currencies, one traceable for making business only, and one untraceable for consumers retail transactions?
loosely i.e.
… I don’t know there is probably still a loophole
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This is not true in France. Politicians that have proven fraud are arrested and charged. In France we have Sarkozy, Cahuzac, Fillon that were all charged with crimes.
They were president, minister and presidential candidate respectively. I’d be surprised if it was different in the USA. I’m seeing that trump is also being charged, the system seems to be working.
Yes, but now there’s an explicit law over which they can be prosecuted
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I order to participate in the fight again corruption, would you mind sharing with us the list of payement you made this week? Please use the following format :
[date], [time] - [nature of the payement] - [transaction amount] - [beneficiary]
One transaction per ligne, in a chronological order.
There’s a special status for some people in Russia, it’s called Foreign Agent, and I believe they need to write down everything they spend money on this way
i mean banks and law enforcement can already get that information
You’ve just invented accounting haha
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I am pretty sure the lesser part of corruption is cash. Probably more stuff like exchanging a lucrative contract for political support.
They are not stupid. Afterall cash needs to be explained, a good contract gives you cash and the explanation.
The 500€ bill was removed from circulation because it was used almost exclusively for corruption and illegal trade.
Can’t say in terms of proportion cash vs. non-cash but one might want to watch the Qatargate recent documentary on Arte which shows that somehow a 700k EUR luggage was found in the house of a MEP. Piles of cash sound outdated yet clearly still exist nowadays.
Geoblocked
Video, audio and subtitles via yt-dlp at https://fabien.benetou.fr/pub/home/ytdl/
I’ll leave that for few days.
Thanks!
Cash is mostly traceable at point of contact unless you keep it in a money bin and don’t spend it, though…
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This thread is a dumpster fire. Can someone explain to me why i should be concerned about the tracking of payments that as an average person will not happen outside of buying huge stuff like a car? While no one is forced to answer me i would like you to refrain from vague statements like “this is attacking your privacy”, because i am interested in how. If you think its obvious feel free to ignore.
I think the biggest point that i could see being a problem is the crypto stuff because i once made a anonymous donation via monero (that because i was concerned but the target needed privacy). It was about 30€ or something. Would that be illegal under the new guidelines? And if so, why would i care, since it is supposed to be anonymous.
There isn’t really. Most people are unaware that most crash transactions and withdrawals anywhere close to those amounts will almost always have to be reported to the government of whatever country you’re in. But, you know, EU bad…
There’s no wholesome reason to need 10k in cash. Even the examples here of paying for an abortion is a problem with reproductive freedom and not cash. You’re not suddenly going to get away with it because you “sneakily” withdrew 10s of 000s in cash, right before you travelled to a state where abortion was legal. Political donations can be made in small, repeated sums. Specifically, as they dont sell large value items.
Unless you’re a hired assassin, a paedophile network, a corrupt politican or a drug cartel it’s not going to effect your business.
In reality, most of the nay sayers are people who take cash payments for the work they do to avoid paying the taxes the rest of us have to pay, for the things we all use.
“It’s not about me so I don’t care”
Principles
Let’s say you have political beliefs and would like to donate to such causes, March against genocide, stand with local essential workers, union fee. Some places like Hungary might be very dangerous if everyone knows what you spend money on.
Whether or not some or all of these examples matter to you, one thing you have to understand and always defend is: you are the boss of your of money. Your ownership and control over your money is evenly linked to how much freedom you have.
Another thing you also have to understand, even if you think full visibility and control for governments is a good thing to solve crime, corruption and/or money laundering: there are and have ALWAYS been black markets. And the worse countries are off, the stronger these markets become.
You don’t need it right up until you need it.
Depending how inflation goes €3k limit will soon be in the territory of regular smartphone price or any slightly more expensive household purchase. AFAIK €1k 3 decades ago would be about €3k now.
That is assuming no one tries to push the limits lower, which is almost guaranteed to happen.
Anonymity is important for various reasons. You can’t predict everything bad a government will try to do to stifle freedom that a person may want to avoid. Off the top of my head, I could see someone trying to pay for an abortion or something like that in a southern state where it’s illegal, for health reasons to save their own life.
I think this is actually a very good example, thank you.
People from europe sometimes come a long as assholes (“wE aRe NoT iN tHe ShItTy UsA”) while ignoring that political stability is not guaranteed. Neither is democracy. Sitting here germany i look very nervously at the many countries shifting to the right and getting more authoritarian.
I pray to all gods that the times we live in wont be very interesting for historians to come…
I think that’s a big reason I’m so pro-privacy. I’m sure if the US weren’t a couple steps ahead of you guys towards fascism, I’d prioritize other things, too. Hopefully you all can stop the march towards the right of your government before it gets worse.
This is Europe not that dumpster fire of a country.
The same Europe that is home to Orban and Vucic and Erdogan? Yeah, good thing you never elect right-wing ideologues with a penchant for authoritarianism.
Well I’m not in the EU, but in my situation I live in a shithole in the US called Tennessee. I have cancer that can be removed, but I don’t have the quarter of a million for the surgery. It’s been impossible to get a surgeon to even look at me, 2 years looking and still no surgeons will even let me in their office.
I need medications but the med I need the most is $8000 a month, it suppresses my autoimmune system and alows me to heal. My cancer is vary rare, it’s called a neuroendocrine tumor, it’s caused by extreme stress, this is because I’m a natural born empath, but saying that out loud usually gets a knife in my back from anyone near me carrying dark energy.
But to get to the point, I can get some meds occasionally for cheap, as long as they’re sold for cash, but if that gos away then I definitely will die much faster. Seems on par for the life I’ve lived, care about everyone, then have everyone try to kill me.
So, because the US can’t get its shit together and you can’t get medical help for neither cancer nor psychological issues, the EU - with pretty good universal healthcare - should allow cash payments without limit?
Hey bud I’m glad narcissism, is working out for you. I really hope you’re old so it don’t catch up.
For a supposed empath you act remarkably similar to an ahole.
You’re describing a problem that literally does not exist in the EU to justify that a law in the EU is wrong. That’s not very smart.
I wouldn’t argue for tougher gun laws in Germany because you guys keep getting your children shot either.
That’s actually one of my karmic debts I must pay off (arrogance,) but I already paid off 8 karmic debts, only four more to go if I live to 98 like most in my family.
I was probably a very bad person in my last life. That’s why this is my road this time, I except my cancer, and if it takes me then so be it. I also apologize for thinking of everyone as one and everyones actions actually effecting everyone else regardless of country, I forget so many people are still so programmed with tribalism.
Also, if it helps you to understand, I grew up in an extremely conservative stronghold with rich assholes everywhere so I became a dark empath, found my way back mostly, but the dark still pounces out on someone now and then (I’m working on it.) Life’s a journey and some don’t want to even try to figure it out, but when you really really want to it starts to show you what you need to get where you need to be.
Life has actually been better then ever since the cancer, I still have a projected seven years left, so I’m working on turning the money machine back on and making the money to save myself in this shitty country I live in, but I never expect anyone to understand what it’s like to feel others emotions your whole life in a family and community that refuse to except this stuff exists.
Ok, so you’re completely bonkers.
that’s exactly what i’d expect a dark empath to say. sheathe your knife unless you want to get saddled with karmic debt bro. you’re limited to paying off karmic debt in transactions of no more than 3k eurohms each, and with this dark energy you’d be in karmic debt into the millions.
Yeah i have heard about crypto being used to get cheaper medication, but i had forgotten, so thanks for taking your time and sharing this example.
I wish you the best health possible, better and cheaper medications and people that make your life better
Thanks, I’m vary used to it by now, but still appreciated.
To me the problem is that you wouldn’t be able to buy a car anonymously anymore, while it leaves the really rich pretty much untouched.
Art is a well known angle for money laundering or giving someone a huge sum of money pretty much without any regulation. Contracts for construction or even consulting are another way.
I don’t have access to this kind of playground - chances are, you neither. But the people supposedly targeted by this kind of law (corrupt politicians, organised crime, …), do have access to these things and are therefore not impacted.
You have to register a car anyway. Where exactly is the problem?
nothing to hide nothing to fear, huh?
And i thought at least after Snowden we learnt this is bs…
What a sophilistic reply. No, car insurance is a thing. The purchase will no longer be anonymous, after you purchase car insurance for the car you just bought.
“You know, for all those totally, 100% legitimate and completely anonymous car purchases people make, that definitely won’t be used by organised crime: honest.”
So you want people to be able to drive several tons of literal murder machines without any form of registration?
don’t try to misunderstand ppl on purpose
Then what else could you possibly mean?
I use Monero for donations too on a regular basis. From what I understand, the people accepting donations would no longer be allowed to sell them to professional platforms (silly as those are the ones KYCing).
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That would make sense. Thx
How do you even ban anonymous crypto? It’s anonymous 😅
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
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If you have €50,000 worth of Monero, they can’t know and won’t care. If you transfer it to someone else you’ll be under the radar. If you try to cash out your Monero, they’ll find out and you’re in deep shit. Monero is worthless to most people if you you can’t exchange for fiat.
It’s not a problem to get large sums of money out of money:
Probably if you are able to fly to a country where there’s lax rules on crypto exchanges and residency, you can get an address there, sign up for an exchange and get the monero out in that currency. I’m sure if you asked a tax advisor how “optimize taxes” they’d give you a bunch of financial instruments to “not launder” money.
Honestly, these laws will probably mostly apply to people with large sums of money most normal people wouldn’t dream of transferring anonymously.
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
They track the trade of art too?
How do you think they’re paying for art?
Money > Art > Suspicious business.
Suspicious business > more Art > more money.
…soooo someone paid money? Which would fall under the regulation.
NFTs invented nothing, they copied the shady scam/money-laundering business of IRL art
I have spent €3000+ in cash a few times in the last few years but I dont really mind this tbh.
Don’t give up on your rights just because it’s easier to be lazy and not defend them. Stand for all them, whatever they might be
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I’m all for privacy and I’d use Monero all the time, but this kind of regulations heavily damaged the mafia so tbh let’s go for it. I’m not gonna spend 3k per transaction regardless
Lol, what a shill. I guess that’s because the mafia follows rules?
If banks and shops don’t accept and give paper money to randoms, bad people have a more difficult life.
It is not only bombs and guns, it’s an intricated system of black market, black job that Redditors from other countries have no idea about 👍
Enjoy your distopia and thank you for enlightening me of how money laundering, black market and kyc works. Keep parroting “security” and “for the kids” though ;)
Man I am on your side. I love privacy and security. I can’t stand “for the kids” rhetoric. I wouldn’t be using Lemmy otherwise. But The limit to 5k€ per transaction is really useful, has already damaged mafia, and prevents big chunks of money to go untraced, leaving room for privacy for regular people. In an ideal world I would be against such action, but I do believe this is the best thing to do when 10% of your GDP is produced illegally.
I also want to apologize for my previous message which could have been interpreted as passive aggressive, it was not intended as such.
I’m sorry sir, it looks like you are exhibiting individual thought, we need to open you up and change your brain for a government approved Brain-a-tron.