Here’s what he said in a post on his telegram channel:
🤫 A story shared by Jack Dorsey, the founder of Twitter, uncovered that the current leaders of Signal, an allegedly “secure” messaging app, are activists used by the US state department for regime change abroad 🥷
🥸 The US government spent $3M to build Signal’s encryption, and today the exact same encryption is implemented in WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Google Messages and even Skype. It looks almost as if big tech in the US is not allowed to build its own encryption protocols that would be independent of government interference 🐕🦺
🕵️♂️ An alarming number of important people I’ve spoken to remarked that their “private” Signal messages had been exploited against them in US courts or media. But whenever somebody raises doubt about their encryption, Signal’s typical response is “we are open source so anyone can verify that everything is all right”. That, however, is a trick 🤡
🕵️♂️ Unlike Telegram, Signal doesn’t allow researchers to make sure that their GitHub code is the same code that is used in the Signal app run on users’ iPhones. Signal refused to add reproducible builds for iOS, closing a GitHub request from the community. And WhatsApp doesn’t even publish the code of its apps, so all their talk about “privacy” is an even more obvious circus trick 💤
🛡 Telegram is the only massively popular messaging service that allows everyone to make sure that all of its apps indeed use the same open source code that is published on Github. For the past ten years, Telegram Secret Chats have remained the only popular method of communication that is verifiably private 💪
Original post: https://t.me/durov/274
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On a different note, did anyone noticed a link to discussion on privacy, referencing this post (2x) on threema blog, see post: Chat Apps, Government Ties, and Transparency ?
&
refs to this: –> https://lemmy.world/post/15169047
which was federated through .world but originally posted on ml.
rip rd
The article about Maher is written by a conservative who can’t accept that we can limit individual freedom to reach true collective freedom.
Also he wrote for FoxNews lol
Stop spreading propaganda please, it’s just a CEO trying to shill its product
I find it weird how any discussion about Signal will inevitably have a bunch of people piling on dismissing any criticisms of it. Believing that Signal is perfect has become like a religion at this point. Whatever people might think of Telegram is completely irrelevant when it comes to the question of whether Signal is actually a secure tool or not.
The fact that people working on Signal have direct ties to US intelligence agencies cannot be ignored. No can the fact that Signal is a centralized system based in US. These two things alone should make everybody very concerned.
Imagine using telegram… It’s worse than whatsapp
Cannot agree about this.telegram have at least open clientsource code,and a lot pirated stuff u cN find in telegram channels. So if choosing between telegram and WhatsApp.Definitely Telegram.
Yes, sorry, but I can’t take something seriously if every paragraph begins and ends with an emoji. I know it’s dismissive, but all my Facebook lunatic conspiracy theory alarm bells are blaring.
It’s more normal in Russian-speaking Web.
Shouldn’t trust this guy anyway, it’s VK’s founder talking.
I wonder if their recent blog post promoting conspiracy theorists and right-wing people turned away more people from telegram than they expected and now they feel the need to spread FUD against their competitors.
I missed this one, have a link?
This is the blog post: https://telegram.org/blog/my-profile-and-15-more
This is a post highlighting the problematic content of the blog post: https://plush.city/@PsyChuan/112336464469767051
Though now that I’m more awake I think it’s probably unrelated, I haven’t seen this circulated around that much.
1488 and other Nazi numbers are, eh, just normal jokes in Russia.
But in general yes, I think this is on purpose. Probably want some people think Telegram is kinda counterculture and more secure. It’s not secure at all, of course.
I’ll stick to Threema and Session, and SimpleX for those who use it. But thanks.
Let’s all just be adults and start using Matrix
Sounds like someone is mad that security experts would rather trust a tried-and-true encryption standard over Telegram’s encryption which is known to not be anywhere near as secure as the Signal protocol.
Pavel resorting to outright slander to promote Telegram is not something I expected to see.
There’s an issue in Russia with graduates of a few of the “kinda top” universities considering themselves elite, but not quite being as qualified as they think.
Durov’s brother won a few programming competitions for highschoolers. Because of that apparently he should be considered something in cryptography. For people thinking like this at least.
Why, it’s very much like him.
he does raise very valid points about reproducible builds, which should be a priority if your product is security
Edit: oh @Wolflink below points out that such builds are available for Android, but iOS has issues stemming from Apple and not Signal. This then begs the question, why is Telegram reproducible on iOS?
You need some loops to jump through to get there. But that can be achieved for Signal as well, if you check the discussions regarding reproducible builds for Signal’s iOS client, you’ll see that people just decided it is not worth the hassle to push it through.
Is it really.
that’s indeed what I am asking
deleted by creator
Maybe fix Telegrams privacy problems.
https://www.404media.co/this-tool-shows-some-telegram-users-approximate-physical-location/
I can’t read it because of the paywall but IIRC (based on a similar article) that was such a nothing-burger issue.
People turned on an entirely optional (I think off by default setting) for some feature that allowed discovery of users by location … and shocked pikachu they could be tracked or something like that.
Here ya go.
It’s not nothing if Telegram makes people believe they only share their location in a limited manner, but instead broadcast it to the whole world. That’s a serious breach of trust. I don’t know why Telegram users keep making excuses for that platform.
Honestly? Because the others are just so bad.
If someone took Telegram’s UX and feature set and paired that with Signal’s approach of “everything is encrypted”, that would be a winner. I kinda hope someday Telegram just does that and moves everything to E2EE. When Telegram was launched E2EE for group chats/at scale wasn’t really a thing … now it’s not nearly as novel but nobody has deployed E2EE with a feature set like Telegram’s.
That’s not even what happens by the way. It’s just that you can spoof a device into random locations and eventually figure out where someone is.
Also Simplex.chat
“I told you so!” - “No you didn’t!” - (mutual distrust forever)
If that’s your bar for gaslighting I hate to tell you I can just edit my messages all over the place to say things that were never said.
Skill issue. Get real friends who don’t do this shit.
What polish and features is signal missing?
And probably several other things I’ve forgotten because … basically nobody I know is still using Signal.
Thanks for the detailed reply. Signal does have location sharing and invite links, FWIW.
Signal’s location share AFAIK can’t be a live location share (which is useful during events like amusement park trips and stuff)
They have invite links to group chats? I don’t know how that would work
I mean it’s pretty bad to practice mass surveillance.
https://mastodon.social/@alshafei/112413115927959085
A “toot” isn’t a very persuasive piece of journalism.
That claim needs a lot more investigation and context. At the very least, it needs investigated by a credible third party.
Also, do you even know what the feature you’re criticizing is? A “channel”? Because it’s not even really a part of the messaging portion of Telegram. It’s basically an in-app blogging platform.
She links to a news article: https://www.saudigazette.com.sa/article/641746/SAUDI-ARABIA/Etidal-Telegram-remove-over-16-million-extremist-contents-in-early-2024
I don’t think Telegram denies doing mass surveillance. They might deny targeting queer groups and claim to only target extremist, whatever that means.
That news article talks nothing about targeting groups unfairly and only talks about removal of extremist activity from what’s a social media platform (which is standard practice for all social media platforms). Specially that article talks about targeting “combating the online propaganda of ISIS, Hay’at Tahrir Al-Sham, and Al-Qaeda” which I believe is uncontroversial for all decent and reasonable people.
Go read the GitHub issue. The main difficulty in implementing reproducible builds is the code signing Apple requires as well as other tweaks Apple makes to modify the binary from what the dev submits to what gets downloaded from the App Store. Note that Android already has reproducible builds. Also the reason the GitHub issue was closed wasn’t “refusal” to implement the feature, they wanted to move the discussion to their forums.
How does Telegram ensure reproducible builds for iOS? Or is Dorsey lying
Who knows how apple decides to do anything? There may be some really stupid arbitrary reason apple modifies signal but not telegram just because apple insists on being difficult. If you don’t trust apple don’t use an iPhone and just download it on android.
that’s not a fantastic answer to my question…
You don’t need a backdoor in signal to bypass its encryption.
All you need is to exploit the phone and wait for them to open or use signal.
If you think your phone is safe from the NSA or similar services, I got some bad news for you.
Physical access is root access. But just because you can’t make something NSA-proof dosen’t mean you can’t make it bloody difficult to break into.
There’s been enough zero day remote exploits that there’s bound to be more.
Pretty sure there’s more than 1 about receiving an SMS and the payload rooting the phone and you not even knowing it happened. At least 1 but I think 2 or more.
Something about a malicious image also rooting a phone.
It goes on and on and phones don’t always get security updates.
You can do your best, but then longer you use a given phone the higher the risk. That’s why people switch out phones frequently when doing shady or important shit
That works for every IM.
It’d almost like… phones aren’t secure.
Nothing is against the attack described TBF.
Say, if I run only OpenBSD, carefully selecting non-base applications, with tightened setup and so on, the baddies may just come when I’m not at home and flash a trojan into my laptop’s UEFI.
Well, it’s easier with phones because these likely already have plenty of backdoors to do this remotely, available only for nation-states.
I’m starting to like the taste of this “conspiracy theorist” thing.
I’m 100% secure, I have Nord VPN
This comment sponsored by NordVPN
I forgot to post an affiliate link and explain how routing all your internet traffic though one company equals security
You mean my ISP which is known to monitor, censor, keep logs, and sell my info or Mullvad who hasn’t been caught doing that yet?
If someone really care about privacy you can use Session instead. Good luck!!
session doesnt have perfect forward secrecy. they removed it from signals protocol to make it more easily compatible with their onion routing/crypto network. makes it one of the easiest apps to be “backdoored” if any keys were to be compromised.
Sarcasm ? An Australian company, with zero constitutional protection from a 5 eyes nation? It screams honey pot
It’s that or the CIA, your choice…
With the 5 Eyes agreement, the they’re one and the same.
Try Threema… Open source, Swiss based, audited. As you and your data are not the product of this company, it costs 5 bucks. Less than a Starbucks coffee, but I still have a hard time convincing my peers to switch. (Not affiliated with Threema, just a fan)
Thx for the info mate 👍👍
You are welcome!
I don’t care about dorsey or whatever, but a lot of privacy advocates don’t consider signal secure, drew devault for example. I’m def among them, you should not trust any centralized US-hosted service.
Linking to their post to say it’s a little bit more complicated that “it isn’t secure” https://drewdevault.com/2018/08/08/Signal.html
I’m all for Jami, and XMPP.