I have been an Android user for 13 years now. After using almost every Google service possible I am going down the privacy rabbit hole lately. Gmail -> Proton Mail, Chrome -> Firefox, Keep -> Notesnook, Google Search -> Kagi, …
I am currently using a Galaxy S23 with as few Google apps as possible (and focussing mainly on open-source apps). I am familiar with rooting (I was a CyanogenMod user back in the days), but today I want to use the phone without tinkering and problem solving. I also like to use a smartwatch and banking apps, so GrapheneOS is a no-go unfortunately.
So it is “Stock” Android (or Samsung’s Android ) vs. iOS for me. Is it better (in terms of privacy) to use an iPhone or stick with an Android phone with an system wide ad-/tracking Blocker (I use Adguard)? It seems there are more privacy-friendly/open-source apps on Android.
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn’t great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don’t promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
Related communities
Chat rooms
-
[Matrix/Element]Dead
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
- 0 users online
- 57 users / day
- 383 users / week
- 1.5K users / month
- 5.7K users / 6 months
- 1 subscriber
- 2.44K Posts
- 57.3K Comments
- Modlog
Privacy is not free, you can’t just get it by choosing the right phone. Sadly everything is set up today to gather as many info about you as possible. If you want to avoid it you have to make some compromises.
Was in the same Situation. Tried calyxos and lineage os with microg but there were always issues. I wanted a phone that works, so I bought an iPhone. I know that is not at all the best way to have privacy, but it works. I try to use as much open source and selfhosting as possible to minimize the data Apple gets. https://github.com/dkhamsing/open-source-ios-apps
You could try grapheneos. It is praised a lot. I can’t comment on it as I don’t own a pixel.
I now have a pixel with grapheneOS but unfortunately it is the same problem with the location in some apps.
Stock IOS is probably more privacy friendly than android. Googles entire business is to make money off your data. Stock android uses google play services that have access to pretty much everything on your phone. Apple will bend to politicians on scanning your files and shit, but at least they (probably) aren’t selling your data. As much as google at the very least.
But like many comments here, if you actually care about privacy, stock anything isn’t the way to go. I use calyxos and find it to be a good balance between privacy and usability. No android auto, but banking apps work and from what I’ve read you can use garmin smartwatches or other similar watches that use their own app and smart watches that have been added to gadgetbridge https://f-droid.org/packages/nodomain.freeyourgadget.gadgetbridge/
Some people don’t like microg, but I believe you can use calyxos without it. (Not sure if that will break banking apps though).
I use /e/OS and it suits all my needs. I use mostly F-droid apps but I have access to Playstore apps through the AppLounge and it works like a charm. I don’t have to do any tinkering so far and I’ve been using it for a year or so.
Do banking apps work on it? If yes, is it with or without microg?
It’s with MicroG. I suppose banking apps work, but personally I don’t use any on my phone. I only do finance on my pc.
On my phone e os came with microG preinstalled. Banking apps work. The only thing not working is payment with apps that want to use gpay. (Udemy, e-scooter renting) I could install google wallet, but I don’twantt any google app on my phone.
If it’s Stock vs iOS, do you really care about privacy? Google is a data mining ad company, that’s why their stuff is free. “If you’re no paying for the product, you are the product”. So Apple right? LOL no. Paying is no protection against being sold too. It’s closed, you’re never know, so they might as well make more money from you.
The only way is having any confidence in things is open source.
So I don’t think iOS vs Stock matters. Android is more open, but all those root level closed Google services completely compromise the phone. They owned the phone.
Stick with Android, you have much more control over the phone even when running stock compared to iOS Besides using Adguard you can also disable the apps you don’t want (some of which are used purely for tracking) using universal Android debloater and also turn of all kinds of tracking in the system
iOS is fully proprietary, so while some might argue that it is more private, it is almost impossible to know. What we do know is that it isn’t private, and apple has a track record against privacy.
I think comparing the two platforms from a privacy perspective is pointless. You’re not going to be private either way. Might as well focus on other factors.
My banking app works just fine on GrapheneOS, and it’s required no tinkering to get it working the way I want. I can’t speak for smart watches unfortunately, but I’d still recommend a Pixel with GrapheneOS if you really care about privacy. If you really don’t want to go with GrapheneOS, I’d still recommend Android. Apple may be marketing towards privacy friendly, but Android still has better FOSS options, which is better than blindly trusting Apple.
I wish I could buy a second hand pixel phone anywhere here. (Central EU) They might be popular in the US, maybe a couple of them are sold in western Europe, but in this region they are imppssible to find.
If you like a Smartwatch-like experience, just try out the PineTime. Been using it now for 5Months and it’s been great so far.
Link for the lazy: https://www.pine64.org/pinetime/
To your point about tinkering, GrapheneOS has an excellent web installer. CalyxOS has a fairly decent install procedure but is maybe slightly more involved.
If you want to make a move in favour of privacy you might want to ditch the smart watch you currently use if it’s a proprietary system that also leverages Google play services, as your health and biometric data is also very valuable to these companies.
Regarding root, I feel as if root access has been more or less phased out in custom ROMs today, likely for attestation purposes but I suppose also to prevent end users from causing irreparable system damage.
For purely just privacy I would say custom rom android > iphone > stock android > samsung android.
I think any Android version is better in terms of privacy than iphone. iOS is property and a lot closer and less customizable than android. If you are really concerned about privacy, my suggestion is not to use iphone.
But “<” means “less than”…?
Oh sorry I have no clue what I was thinking I meant >.
I tend to lean toward Android simply because it gives me more control/options instead of completely relying on Apple’s promise that they care
E.g. I like that I can use NeoStore for FOSS apps instead of the google Play store
Banking apps are fine on GrapheneOS and o think smart watches are too but can’t personally confirm.
grapheneos might add more to this comment time permitting
removed by mod
Hey there’s always murena phones, that come preinstalled with /e/OS
Generally Apple apps e2e encrypt your data and can not be read/mined by them. There are caveats such as Siri (anonymized voice clips uploaded for example) or (iirc) Apple News. Things like notes, fitness/health, or iMessage are your data.
removed by mod
It is a business risk for Apple to mine data on data they have explicitly confirmed in this ToS to be e2e encrypted and private.
If we’re going that far, none of the Broadcom/Qualcomm/Exynos/Snapdragon chips have open source firmware. Additionally google services are all closed source and proprietary.
Backdoors exist but all phones have backdoors in them and should be assumed they are exploited by state actors.
From a privacy standpoint, on stock mobile OS, Apple is the lead. I certainly won’t disagree that there are custom roms without google services that are superior though.
I agree. I work in tech and having a secret back door opens you up for potentially billions of dollars of lawsuits and all it takes for everything to blow up is one whistleblower.
I don’t think the average apple user cares about the difference between e2ee and e2ee but apple also has a key
Most privacy conscious people don’t use iCloud, the only place where by default Apple has the key (can be changed for users that don’t want this)
Apple as of 16.2 has an option to fully encrypt iCloud backups without allowing Apple to have a key. Assuming this is what you’re talking about.
Otherwise, most privacy conscious people are not using iCloud.
I was a Nexus/Pixel user for a very long time (until the Pixel 5). But there is no more small Pixel so I “had” to switch to Samsung. The Pixel 8 could be an option although it is not really high end - I’d like to stay with 3 cameras for example.