I might have misunderstood this but is Android really trying to push this as tracking as a privacy upgrade, simply because it let’s us choose which of our interests we want advertisers to have access to?
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“Privacy.”
They keep using this word. I do not think it means what they think it means.
“Please just let me track you one last time baby”
I promise it’ll be forever, this time.
Oh fun, it’s that garbage from Chrome now in Android
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Smartphones are Spyware and Data harvest devices by definition, all of them. I get goosebumps every time when I see people using their cell phones to payfor banking, discount apps from supermarkets, saving sensitive data in these gadgets. Almost all cases of large data leaks of sensitive data in the past are due to this, the unconscious use of these devices. They are surveillance devices of large companies for commercial purposes.
That they now offer you as privacy feature to choose who they are going to sell your data to, is more than ironic, they piss on your face and say that it is raining and people believe it.
well it’s an improvement…
basically the tracking is still there but runs locally on your phone, so google only knows this
someone with ip 1.2.3.4 is interested in sports, cats and videogames and is looking to purchase a new monitor
(and the info is sent with every ad request, statelessly) google promises they won’t associate these requests with ip addresses, but I won’t trust them.
instead of a full log like:
user x with tracking id 12345 visited catworld.com at 10:34:56 PM and stayed there for 35 seconds
user x with tracking id 12345 made a purchase on website shoptech.com and was scrolling through the monitors page for 10 minutes.
it’s still tracking but it sucks less i guess…
and making it a default is probably a great move
(I’d rather opt out of any form of tracking tho)
… checks to see if catworld.com is real.
Come on down to catwarehouse.com
And since only Google knows it strengthens their data monopoly even further, as if it wasn’t bad enough already.
I’m split on this concept. Assuming we can’t get away from tracking I would prefer a company like Google over a company like Meta. Google doesn’t sell your data, they just serve ads based on what data they have. Meta and other data brokers will sell your data to whoever ponies up the cash. I’m not happy about being tracked either way. I just recognize one system is considerably worse than the other. Also, if (and this is a big if) Google honors your request to delete your data then I believe it would be even less of a concern. Right now I have my Google data set to auto delete after three months. Ideally that would be enough data to help with traffic suggestions etc while serving up relevant ads but not enough to build an invasive profile. Realisticly we need more laws outlining how our data can be used and ensuring that it’s not retained in ANY form after a set period of time or when it’s deletion is requested.
The ads I get are frequently in a language I dont speak. Thats how you know they can’t track you.
I do my best to set things up so that I don’t see any ads (running DNS66 for example). But if I had to see ads, I’d prefer them to be irrelevant. That way they’re easier to ignore. I don’t need to do any favors for the corporate giants trying to milk me for every penny.
There, I fixed it for you
Any App that shows any ads gets deleted right on the spot. Simple as that.
When I started using NextDNS, I changed my mind about that. It’s a bit like having a pi-hole with you even when you’re not on your home network.
There’s probably a FOSS app that does the same thing without ads and tracking
DNS66 from F-Droid.
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Their content blocking seems to run on a cloud service that you connect to via their app but it looks like it works the same for the end user.
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Eh, I don’t care about apps that are just utilities I use every once in a while, but I’ve set up my network to be unprofitable for any advertiser.
How did you do that?
Whole home VPN and a pi hole
Simple yet effective.
Dont use Google Android
I mean, yeah. Use Android AOSP without Google.
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Obviously by “google” were talking about proprietary blobs.
For example TOTP is great. There’s no issue with the fact that it was developed by Google. Same with AOSP.
Any ROM doesn’t have Google Play Services by default and therefore its google free in all the ways that matter
No some OS preinstall microG. Because only if the core is finished you can hash and sign it, if the user flashes some apps afterwards that doesnt work.
Btw ROM is read only memory, a tiny part of the firmware
MicroG is open source tho and only talks to Google if you explicitely activate it
No its not. They download Google Binaries which run as system apps and have privileged access.
They practice badness enumeration in some form, while their permission model (only activating what is needed) is a better approach but incomplete.
Any app that relies on Play has those libraries implemented, so they could show ads etc. on their own. But with microG they have a component with privileged system access, in contrast to sandboxed play where no component is privileged.
That’s completely false, where did you get that info from?
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Which is even less degoogles as it preinstalls microG which is official Google binaries, running as a system app with permission to critical system infos and basically all your stuff.
See my other comments.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I wish but switching to Apple would be just as bad and I would want to die being forced to use their fisher price software for the tech illiterate.
Soon though, in the next 5 years I think Linux phones (I know Android is Linux, you know what I mean) will be in a good state. So hopefully I can switch soonish
Google and SOC vendors are trying their best to stop developing of Linux phones. That’s why available Linux phones use 10 year old chipsets.
Lets be frank, the main reason is that only like 1% of the market has an articulated preference towards free software and privacy. No money to be made equals no product in our cruel world. And of course FOSS, even if it is free to a user (as in you do not have to pay to use it. You do need to spend your time and resources to learn it though, and that is not free already), is by no means free to develop. The time spent on it by devs has to be compensated somehow, enthusiasm is unfortunately not the only fuel our bodies need. And then, for phones, the hardware required is not free as well. And then we need a manufacturer, who would be much more interested in making a billion Android phones than a million of a niche product.
Does Google actively try to stop development of the alternatives? Unlikely, because they don’t have to. They do not make it easier of course, why would they. And they do buy out everything they can, because they can use it to improve their products.
I do not see a good way out of this loop for now. Do you?
https://postmarketos.org/faq/#why-postmarketos-over-ungoogled-android-or-halium Hardware vendors just use proprietary drivers so it’s almost impossible to port linux to their devices. It is so crazy that you can’t even update linux kernel in Android without vendor’s help.
I dont think they’re saying to use Apple. I read that as “Use Android without Google” … Which is actually easier than using Android with Google if you install the OS yourself.
I am waiting for the same thing. The amount of shit you have to disable, block, or unistall on android is getting ridiculous. It’s getting really old.
Most of the new “features” that either apple or google add anymore are absolute trash. I am constantly having to go through the settings and disable shit.
The stock android is so full of non-romovable crap that a launcher is required anymore.
It’s the same for windows, win11 is only usable with a launcher like startallback.
Dont wait, just get a Pixel 6a-8 and install GrapheneOS.
(8 is expensive but will last 7+ years with extended GrapheneOS updates)
What do you use in place of GApps? F-droid?
Also, what’s the flashing process like these days? Does it still wipe everything or is there a way to save all the personal stuff?
Just check grapheneos.org
They have only a minimal appstore preinstalled, which they use for their own apps. It is the best there is with full background updates etc. Every store could do this if they used modern libraries.
You have Vanadium preinstalled, from which you can install “F-Droid Basic” (the modern client), or Aurorastore, or accrescent, obtainium etc.
Their own solution is sandboxed google play, installed as regular user apps with way more restricted permissions and an opt-in method (only dedicated calls are allowed) in contrast to the extremely privileged microG or even “GAPPS” which can do everything (and in the place of microG having selected things removed, badness enumeration while still using proprietary Google code).
GrapheneOS is basically Android done right, play services etc. work, you can install all Google apps from the playstore, not as system apps, if you wanted to. (wallet and others are exceptions as they require a Google certified OS).
There’s Always graphene or calyx…
Calyx is way worse than Graphene. Only use it if your device is not supported by GrapheneOS > DivestOS.
And afaik Calyx doesnt even support many phones lol. On GrapheneOS this is actually due to missing security, which Calyx doesnt even use.
agreed
Fuck banking institutions & their apps. We are seeing them eliminate online banking now & cash is slowly not being accepted by vendors & in-person experiences are worse—instead everything is siloed to only Android or iOS & disallow any sort of modifications to your device with all these attestation assertions. If a user wanted to ditch their phone, go Linux, use an unGoogled phone, or get a dumbphone, etc. they will be disconnected from the banking network—to which most users would view as an immediate nonstarter. Apple is just a different data-collecting advertising business.
The browser login of my bank needs a separate application that’s windows only or an app. The Java(!) application Jameica saved my ass for the 6 years I’m on Linux now. It can manage multiple accounts. It offers statistics, saves all the transfers, deposits and balances ad infinitum on your disk, is searchable and has templates and schedules for transfers.
The protocol my bank uses is FinTS, I think. I’m logging in via a certificate file and a password.
I don’t want to use an app, cause I trust my cutting edge Linux (Kernel 6.7.6) a lot more than my possibly malicious app riddled outdated android.
In what country does that exist? No onlinebanking and no cash sounds illegal.
In many places its illegal to not accept cash. Report any businesses and if its legal in your area, donate to your local privacy lobbiest NGO and contact your representative.
Where? I can’t think of many places where that’d be true.
San Francisco. Law was passed like 10 years ago because not everyone can get a bank account and its discrimination
Return to Nokia 3310 then I guess
Probably wouldent work on modern cell networks.
DeGoogle your Android ROM/use a custom ROM. What exactly was so hard to understand in that comment that made you want to switch to a feature-phone?
I just want to buy a phone and use it without having to figure out all that
Thats how you do it with GrapheneOS. Buy a pixel, take like 30min to install the OS, install F-Droid Basic and sandboxed Play and get your apps.
Degoogling Android is not possible, and LineageOS and other more difficult to install Androids are less secure.
GrapheneOS has a graphical installer, you just need a Laptop (Windows, Linux, Mac), a Chromebook or another Android phone and a USB cable, thats it. You can literally install it from one phone (using some variant of Chromium like Chrome, Cromite, Brave etc.) By opening a website and clicking 4 buttons.
yeh maybe in a few years when I need a new phone
Not in this century, unfortunately. Even using a SIM card is going to let companies track you.
Just dont use a SIM card.
Two cans and a string should be a good solution then. It respects your privacy and the battery life is unbeatable.
Vulnerable to the tin can in the middle attack.
Honestly theres a half dozen e2ee apps these days with voice calling support, and WiFi is everywhere. Most people have no reason for a SIM card
Exactly, so “degoogling” your phone isn’t a solution.
Neither is the Nokia a solution
no it was sarcasm
Apple is terrible right to repair, and lineage has a bunch of weird bugs, so I’m kinda stuck with it
Which bugs have you found in LineageOS? There’s quite a big community behind it, so maybe you can find some help. There are also other LineageOS-based ROMs worth checking: CalyxOS, DivestOS, iodéOS, /e/OS.
I’ve been using iodeOS for about a year soon! Very happy with it :)
GrapheneOS is the only good Option. Calyx and /e/ are both just LineageOS forks with incomplete or even insecure additions
is ios the only alternative?
No, just use Android without Google. Actually if you install Android yourself, it doesn’t include Google by default.
ios is not really privacy friendly. It’s more the result of an amazing PR campaign. That plus the fact that Apple wasn’t really in the ad game but now it is slowly changing. In reality you are giving your data to Apple. You will say, yeah but Apple is ok, of course they are because they have great marketing. Google doesn’t and Google = privacy nightmare, which is also true.
IOS being private is such a horrible lie. Techlore is really annoying with those subtle ads, even though they also often cover GrapheneOS.
If Apple wants your shit, with any of their OS you are theirs. You are not private if you need to rely on the mercy of Big Brother to not steal your stuff
No
Its funny that I was forced to buy a google pixel just to avoid google. Wish more companies here allow people to unlock bootloader on the mobile they own.
Its not about an unlockable bootloader only, but full support for all hardware features
https://lemmy.ml/post/12310012
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/111976026139453712
Oh I am aware but I was replying to him asking other alternatives to google android, not op. I wanted any mobile that let’s me degoogle it on day 1 without voiding warranty and it ended up being a google mobile.
Yup Google is a very strange Company. Chromebooks are sometimes the easiest Coreboot Linux Laptops to buy.
Or other Android ROMS that help distance you from Google, like GrapheneOS or LineageOS.
GrapheneOS dev is a corporate Big Tech shill and a witch hunting crybully asshole who abuses “autism” label to deflect all criticism, and lies about being attacked by people. Last year he fabricated a story about being swatted, went around banning everyone asking for evidence, and accused a bunch of groups, YouTubers and redditors for being complicit in his murder, with no local Canadian media coverage for it.
You mean the one who stepped down like half a year ago? Also GOS is not the work of a single person, you know…
You mean the one who is the only person to have any commits on GrapheneOS GitHub project? You know that, right? Or are you one of the thousands of sheeps that blindly trust without verifying security or evidence?
You’re right he’s still committing, however it’s easily verifiable he’s not the only one. Still I’ll give you that, since it seems Micay is quite active. I guess I am a “sheep that blindly trusts”, since I don’t have the skills to audit the code in this case. I will assume you are not such a sheep (otherwise why would you accuse someone else of being so?), so would you please enlighten me on the verifications you’ve done or the evidence you’ve found that makes you not trust the GOS project? On top of that. What do you trust for a mobile OS?
I do not want to insult you when I say “sheep”, however this amount of blindness among almost everyone is staggering. It pisses me off when FOSS enthusiasts say they are vigilant, but fall for the same marketing crap that non-FOSS corporate software users do. Why are people eating up all this gospel Micay and his mods invented?
I do not need expert skills to see one person is making commits to this AOSP fork on GitHub. The commit graph/tool shows that openly. I am probably not even half as good as many people, I consider myself dumb.
What do I trust? Calyx if you want one of these pre-configured custom ROMs for Pixels only, and Lineage or /e/ if you want more device support. They atleast do not lie about features and weasel around and ban critics by labelling them as “concern trolls”, “charlatans”, “neonazis” and so on.
I would recommend you first read this. Please read the paper by Ken Thompson, co-creator of Unix and C, on why we should be able to trust the developer and NOT the code. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf
Know that they lie to the extent of going around in tech YouTuber comment sections and claim they have $1M Cellebrite Israeli toolkits to verify grapheneOS is safe against bootloader attacks like Evil Maid. https://i.imgur.com/woNxPhx.jpg
Well… I don’t use any apps that show ads. I’d rather not use my phone at all. And if Android adds more tracking itself it may be time to give Graphene a shot.
No ads doesn’t mean no data collecting
No, but it does mean no ads. (That’s good.)
AndroidGoogleThis may also be known as privacy washing, but as another comment said, this way might be better than just not getting this choice at all
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True, but we don’t get to choose a whole lot when it comes to Google. I personally don’t have Google Services on my phone and would like to keep it that way - so I’m not up to date what Google is pulling off these days :)
Yeah, so, Google already has this data about you. What they’re doing here is trying to reduce the specificity of information given to advertisers about your behaviors, and simultaneously give you the ability to never inform specific third parties about your interest in the specific topics you choose
I see this as a good thing. They were literally already getting and using all of this data. In that case I’d much rather have some control over who knows which things about me, rather than leaving it entirely up to Google
It’s a good thing for Google. Who now controls all the data.
It’s good for consumers, if you trust Google and enjoy them having an effective Monopoly on ads
For the non tech person choosing to be as private as possible, can you just turn it off and it not collect anything? Sorry for the naive question. I honestly do not know the answer.
Arguably more stuff is going to be collected and sent to more people if it’s turned off. But it will be in a more piecemeal though likely more personally identifiable way. At least that’s what Google would definitely argue
I genuinely don’t know if the counterfactual is worse than the actual here. Either way bad.
It also helps Google form more of a monopoly on your info, since it keeps companies like Facebook from forming as accurate of a profile on you.
It’s weird that we’ve arrived at “Don’t let Google have a monopoly on personally identifying you for advertising purposes!”
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Yes google has this information - because we logged in and gave it to them - now they need our permission to wall it off from other businesses, thus creating THE revenue stream of the internet.
So, if you’ll just click this little button here.
This little one. Right there.
It’s not a good thing. It’s performative and designed to trick people into thinking that Google cares about their privacy and overlook the fact that Google are using their browser/search monopoly to extend their control over the advertising industry.
IMO Google is like Joe Biden. Not good, but infinitely better than the shit show that is the alternative (in the context of advertisers specifically)
Although you can turn off the ads they can still track & harvest your data in all directions because it’s google