(Please when answering, assume I’m not a beginner at privacy/programming :) I know where the good stuff at)

First off, shameful confession: I’m writing this on a dying yellow iPhone XR I bought second-hand three years ago (189€). I absolutely love the look of it: the screen, build quality, are all amazing. The only problem was the locked ecosystem (sideloading Spotify/Torrent client was sooo hard).

I saw the android phone of my mother dying really fast. She currently has a Xiaomi phone that’s ridiculously big for my hands, there’s advertisements in the stocks apps (?!!), the UX is janky and everything. It looks like a bloat, privacy nightmare.

So… because it’s impossible to find a jailbreakable phone nowadays I need to buy an android and ideally I would want:

  • Good screen (vivid colors)
  • Good build quality (not shitty plastic)
  • Don’t care about the camera (I don’t want those ridiculously big cameras they make nowadays)
  • Would want to install either GrapheneOS/LineageOS

The things that scare me off:

  • I really need my bank app and I need it updated so I have to use Google Play Services but I don’t want it to plague my phone with privacy bullshit (I want to be degoogled)

The things that excite me:

  • Customization possibilities
  • Learning experience
  • Even more privacy than a de-googled IOS phone :)
  • F-Droid!! (Maybe I’ll find a beautiful IRC client)
  • More choices for Mastodon & Lemmy clients
  • Freedom of free software.
  • client for open-source git providers :)

But to get all of that, I don’t want Google, I need shitty apps (non-free software) I have to install:

  • Instagram (for non-technical friends)
  • GitHub (job & open-source)
  • No-Ad Modded Spotify from Balatan
  • Discord (gamer friends)
  • Telegram (cryptobros friends)
  • Steam (because I still love gaming)

Any advices? Phone ideas? I’m so lost in this ocean of choice (freedom ✨)

My current phone:

This is crazy. I’m in exactly the same situation and have been thinking about getting a mobile plan with a Pixel 8 (where I would install GrapheneOS on) as those are getting cheaper with the Pixel 9 out not.

Take the Fairphone over the Pixel since you’re in Europe

Wild Bill
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210d

? I’m a European Pixel user.

Better repairibility and no useless features like they’re pushing. Graphene is good but it’s not the only privacy-focused Android distribution

Possibly linux
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Calyx OS, Graphene OS or Lineage OS with MicroG. All of those will work fine for your use case. Just aim to get as many of your apps off of F-droid as possible. F-droid is a marketplace of free software and all apps in the main repo must meet certain requirements.

I would recommend eliminating your non free apps especially the dark pattern ones like Instagram and Discord. These apps are not private and you can’t make them private. They are designed to get you hooked to the point where you can not leave. Also Targeted advertising has its own dark patterns which are harmful on so many levels. I realize it is hard to move but you can be the change you want to see. Maybe make it a long term goal to try to get people to move somewhere else. You can do some research and come up with an alternative.

A Google Pixel with GrapheneOS is the best thing on the market for privacy and security.

GrapheneOS is a privacy and security-focused operating system, which is based on Android and retains full compatibility with Android apps. There are no Google services by default, but you can install Sandboxed Google Play services, which have much less access to your device, because they are running in the normal Android application sandbox, just like any other app you install, and can be removed at any time. GrapheneOS offers many other cool features, such as a network permission toggle, which lets you revoke internet access from any app (like e.g. the Google Camera app).

I’m glad you already know about F-Droid, because there are so many amazing apps there. After looking at your home screen and the apps you currently use, here are some quick recommendations from me:

  • Before you start using F-Droid, add the IzzyOnDroid repoisitory, as it contains even more awesome apps that can’t be found in the official repo
  • Switch to a better F-Droid client, such as Droid-ify
  • Revolution is the best IRC client I could find on F-Droid, it looks a little older (doesn’t use the newest version of Material Design), but still works very well
  • LibreTorrent is an amazing torrent client
  • AntennaPod is IMO the best podcast app on Android
  • The official Wikipedia app is available on F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.wikipedia
  • Element X is a new, rewritten version of the Element client (it’s officially made by the Element team, and you can even try it out on iOS right now)
  • Clock You is a good and modern looking clock/timer/stopwatch/alarm app
  • There are a few Telegram apps on F-Droid. I have found Nekogram X to be the best. If you prefer the experience of the stock Telegram app, you can get Telegram-FOSS from F-Droid.
  • For Signal, you can either use Signal-FOSS (requires a third-party repo), or an improved fork of the app called Molly (you can either get it from Accrescent, which is available in the GrapheneOS App Store), or by adding their custom F-Droid repo. Molly is officially recommended by the GrapheneOS project over the normal Signal app.
  • The official GitHub app works just fine, but you can also try FOSS alternatives from F-Droid such as FastHub-Libre, or OctoDroid.

The other apps you mentioned in your post are not available on F-Droid, but I also have a few recommendations there:

  • xManager for Spotify (it’s a modded, patched version that removes ads)
  • Aliucord for Discord (it removes some of the telemetry and tracking)
  • Instagram and Steam can easily be downloaded from the Google Play Store. You can use Aurora Store, to download apps from Google Play without creating a Google Account.
  • If you only need Steam for the authenticator, there is a way to get the verification codes in a FOSS TOTP authenticator like Aegis, without having to install the Steam app: https://help.ente.io/auth/migration-guides/steam/
  • You can either use FFUpdate to download the Brave Browser, or use Obtainium to pull the APK from GitHub

Also check out Lawnchair launcher, since I at least find the stock launcher kinda lacking in features and UI/UX.

Feel free to ask me any further questions, either in this thread or via Lemmy DM

@hector@sh.itjust.works
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411d

That’s amazing advice thanks :) you’re so knowledgeable about this ecosystem

I’m trying to help out wherever I can :)

Thank you, for all the Alternatives. I love Antenna Pod!!!

I love it too, it’s genuinely the best app for podcasts I’ve ever used

baduhai
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Havjng a look at CalyxOS may also be an option. It’s another privacy android ROM, but it runs in more devices than just Pixels.

Throwing Fairphone into the pot. They’re well supported by LineageOS and have the additional advantage of being user-repairable.
But they only ship inside Europe.

youmaynotknow
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Your “ideally would want” pretty much locks you to a Pixel phone. The 7 has serious radio issues, the 8 works great (I had the 7 Pro now have the 8 Pro, no always on GrapheneOS) and don’t know about the 9, but other that all the AI bullshit they are pushing with it, I don’t really see that the specs justify those prices, specially since you’re looking at installing GrapheneOS on it.

5a was the last version with a headphone jack, so they lost my respect

youmaynotknow
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That’s an across the board thing. But yes, that’s l a removed.

LogicalErzor
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@hector If you want to tinker with both Linux and Android for your phone, look at this list: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices

There are some devices that can dual boot Android and Linux (the one I know of is OnePlus 6)

Since mainline Linux works on the OnePlus 6, I think there were some efforts to get the latest Android running on it. Ask in the postmarketOS Matrix chat to make sure though

Also surprised people recommending GrapheneOS: https://youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0

I was going to mention postmarketos if they really wanted to dive headfirst into the degoogled life, lol

LogicalErzor
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@Sarcasmo220 Yeah, I’m a bit surprised people aren’t recommending it and other Linux distros, especially when there are few rough edges left. Any rough edges that truly bother you, and you can switch back to LineageOS while keeping an eye on Linux for when it’s solved

Andrew Tanenbaum stated that for every 1,000 lines of properly written C code, there is a bug. AOSP is ~500 GB! I don’t trust other ROMs besides LineageOS because how do developers of other ROMs audit this?

I want to support the Linux phones, but I feel you would still be required to carry a second Android phone one way or another with just enough things in life unfortunately requiring ‘the app’ with no web alternative. This isn’t really something you can overcome without reverse engineering entire apps—which usually violates some stupid ToS that gets your account banned for using an alternative client. That said, the more these exact apps are requiring no root, no flashing, no unlocked bootloader, the closer we are getting to needing a separate device anyhow. Maybe my next phone will be Linux 🤔

LogicalErzor
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@toastal Yeah, I wanna be able to support them too. I still have the Pinephone Pro just sitting there because of the abysmal battery life

Waydroid has most apps covered. Would you perhaps know of any that aren’t? Drains battery extremely fast though. You can always dual booting into Android (Not sure how that works) at least on the OnePlus 6

A bit unfortunate that devices have varying levels of functionality, but it’s still amazing what people have done so far

@hector@sh.itjust.works
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The GrapheneOS situation is crazy lol

I would just add a +1 for Sony Xperia phones with LineageOS support (do check). They offer OLED panels, a 3.5mm headphone jack, & microSD card—with the last two once being standard now almost impossible to find despite their usefulness.

As for services, many of them can be accessed thru a browser. There are enough Firefox forks out there that you could stay authenticated with these grimy, untrustworthy apps & another fork with your typical web browsing.


That said some of this could be given up to an extent. If you have a microSD slot or carry a separate DAP, there shouldn’t be much need for Spotify where an offline library is quicker, saves data, & can offer higher bitrates (obv no ads too). Microsoft GitHub is not useful on a phone since no one codes on a phone & you can subscribe to the things you need either their Atom feeds or via email & all of your personal code should be living somewhere off the proprietary platform—especially if you want to help access to contributions since it is blocked for US sactions in some regions & they bow out to capitalist interests (see youtube-dl, or Switch emulators, etc.), while requiring your contributors give up their privacy as there is no way to report bugs or send patches without an account. And the chat options, depending on the situation you should see if you can get folks to consider your privacy too (else why on this sub?) & switch to something decentralized & with E2EE the default for DMs & optional for groups—XMPP is a great default choice, Mumble was built for games, but there are other options. Need is a strong word, & it might take a few years, but eventually, hopefully you can ween yourself & help friends get off these platforms as it is bad for them too, but you are not going to get much privacy if the corporations & governments can still read all your chats.

everyone keeps mentioning Pixel Devices, but I’d personally never use one for the same reason I won’t wear branded clothes

you should check out OnePlus devices, the bootloaders are easily unlocked and they’ve major LineageOS support, the phones also have a high quality build, if you like the form of your XR, definitely check out the OnePlus 8/8 pro or 9/9 pro

another option is if you can get any of the Samsung S10 models with an exynos chip, they also have strong build and are supported by lineageOS as well

You can unlock the bootloader on OnePlus devices, but you can’t re-lock it afterwards, permanently leaving your device in an insecure state. This is a really bad idea, and definitely shouldn’t be recommended.

The S10 came out in 2019 and hasn’t been supported by the manufacturer for a long time, it’s not a good idea either.

And lastly, LineageOS itself is pretty insecure. It is much weaker than stock Android or even iOS. You can read more about this here: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html#lineageos
or here: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

It also has much worse app compatibility than GrapheneOS, because it doesn’t use the official Google Play services binary (which GrapheneOS puts in a sandbox to restrict its access), except you install it as a system application, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of using a custom ROM in the first place. GrapheneOS is the easiest, best and most secure choice for degoogling.

kali
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I’d go either with a Fairphone 5 (or maybe wait for the 6 to release) with CalyxOS or a Google Pixel with GrapheneOS.

I’m on Fairphone 4 with CalyxOS, and I am happy with that. I would not expect them to release a Fairphone 6 anytime soon, so unless OP has all the time in the world, the Fairphone 5 should be good if they want to go this route.

You sound like the ideal candidate for a refurbished Pixel 7 / 8 from amazon.

Test its hardware thoroughly on the stock os in case you need to return it.

Install GrapheneOS using the Web installer.

Install Droid-ify into your main profile from the f-droid web page. It looks much better than the official f-droid client and actually has a working auto-update

Create a work profile. I use an app called Shelter as the work profile admin app. This allows you to auto freeze your big-tech apps to help with battery life / privacy. Install google services from the built-in GrapheneOS app store.

Enjoy.

Google services shouldn’t even be needed for the apps OP listed above. Instagram works just fine without Google services, just like Discord, Telegram and Steam. I don’t know about GitHub, but there are FOSS alternatives for it on F-Droid. Spotify (xManager) also works just fine.

Generally agreed, I would actually try using as many services with their progressive web apps.

The main reason I think they may need google services is the banking app. Mine will refuse to launch without google services installed.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I’ve never seen the point of PWAs. I don’t want a crappy website as an icon on my homescreen, I want a proper native app. If the app is privacy-invasive, I will either find a FOSS alternatives, or isolate it in a separate user profile.

The main reason I think they may need google services is the banking app. Mine will refuse to launch without google services installed.

That’s true, I also need Play services for mine, but I have a special user profile for it.

Why not use most of the web versions of the non-free apps you mentioned? No Google needed.

Rolling Resistance
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  • push notifications
  • websites that tell you “use our app”
  • better UX

I should really get around to putting grapheneos on my pixel but I’m lazy.

Take a look at Nitro Key. They’re like Yubikey, but they sell pixel phones with a security and privacy focused custom grapheneOS.

They’re really overpriced though. Flashing GrapheneOS is really easy thanks to their Web-based installer, and there are countless tutorials on YouTube.

Is it any different than installing grapheneos on pixel phone yourself?

Not everyone wants to mess with loading custom roms and configuring systems.

In the case of GOS in particular, it is made ridiculously easy by the web installer though.

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