There are also many others in US and worldwide.

We are comparing chatGPT and Deepseek.

China is worse when comparing many other factors

Again, not an opinion everyone agrees on. And this very much depends on which factors are cherry picked.

but if ALL you care about is whether the model weights are os,

If you want privacy then you need to run locally, and to run locally all you do care about is model weights.

then it is usually not decided by countries, but rather companies.

Not sure why this dimension is worth adding to the discussion.

Ulrich
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7d

We are comparing chatGPT and Deepseek.

You asked “which countries”.

not an opinion everyone agrees on.

Only people who don’t have their heads buried in the sand. You can’t possibly believe China is not much much worse than the US. I literally don’t believe you. You’re a bot or a paid actor.

Photuris
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14d

Wow nuance much?

Yes, China has problems with authoritarianism, and curtailing free speech and such.

But, there’s a lot of good happening there too.

It’s not black and white.

USA v. China is not Gondor v. Mordor.

Have you been to China?

If not, you should 100% go and check it out for yourself!

Ulrich
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24d

Wow nuance much?

There’s plenty of nuance but that’s not relevant in generalities.

there’s a lot of good happening there too.

No one said it’s all bad. There’s lots of good everywhere. That doesn’t mean everywhere is an equally good place.

Have you been to China? If not, you should 100% go and check it out for yourself!

What am I going to find out by going there that I can’t read about? That I’ve been lied to? That the CCP isn’t blocking information about Tianenmen Square and other govt atrocities? That the mere act of protesting isn’t illegal? That they aren’t murdering dissidents? Privacy in it’s entirety isn’t illegal?

You asked “which countries”.

Countries and LLM model providers associated with those countries.

  • All openai data goes to the NSA

  • Online deepseek data goes to the CCP. Local models stay private.

You can’t possibly believe China is not much much worse than the US.

When it comes to AI models, China is streets ahead in openness.

But if you are introducing other factors, ask an Iranian what they prefer; money from China or bombs from the US and vassal states?

The only people believing that Americans are superior in everything are Americans.

Ulrich
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-17d

When it comes to AI models, China is streets ahead in openness.

No one was talking about openness, we were talking about data collection.

All openai data goes to the NSA

Online deepseek data goes to the CCP. Local models stay private.

You’re comparing online models with local models. Local OpenAI models are also private.

The only people believing that Americans are superior in everything are Americans.

Good thing no one said that. It’s not just America either. Most countries are significantly more free than China (and Russia and North Korea), and if you don’t believe that, you need to open your eyes.

No one was talking about openness, we were talking about data collection.

The only way to ensure no data collection is to run locally, which requires openness.

You’re comparing online models with local models.

Correct

Local OpenAI models are also private.

They don’t exist, and privacy cannot be guaranteed.

Good thing no one said that. It’s not just America either.

So you do think that.

Most countries are significantly more free than China (and Russia and North Korea),

The word used was “worse” which is highly subjective.

and if you don’t believe that, you need to open your eyes.

Residents of “the land of the free” don’t understand irony.

Ulrich
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-27d

Okay at this point its pretty clear you have no intention of good faith discussion and want to constantly redirect the conversation to a strawman argument so I’m going to bail.

Dude, you are the one inserting words like “freedom” trying to slide the conversation.

China is not worse , principally because worse is unmeasurable.

We are comparing chatGPT and Deepseek.

Then why are you asking binary questions about countries? Meta released open source models and weights way before DeepSeek, but I guess that wouldn’t fit into your “China is better” narrative so we’ll just pretend Llama never happened.

Then why are you asking binary questions about countries

Because a highly opinionated binary statement was made about China. I’m not saying China is better than the US. I’m saying it’s not worse.

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