So as we know Windows Platform Apps and WinUI3 apps do not work on Linux, I keep wondering if Microsoft were to launch a new API let’s say direct X 15 but limit it to Windows Store Apps, and provided a way for the apps to be installed from other stores like steam could they in time kill modern Linux gaming.
Some people are making fun about this, but if you look at the history of the steam store and how Gabe is focusing so heavily on Linux, it is because he is concerned that Microsoft is going to shut down Win32 and he will be absolutely screwed.
Due to this, he is creating a safety net for himself and is pushing Linux hard as an alternative to Microsoft Windows so that he can not be so reliant on Microsoft and what they choose to do and not do. Specifically when it comes to win 32.
I think there’s a strong temptation to close the platform. If people look at what they can accomplish when they can limit competitors’ access to their platform, they say, “Wow, that’s really exciting.” Even some of the people who have open platforms, like Microsoft, get really excited by the idea that Netflix has to pay them rent in order to be on the Internet.
That’s not how we got here, and I don’t think that’s a very attractive future. So we’re looking at the platform, and up until now we’ve been a free rider. We’ve been able to benefit from everything that’s gone into the PC and the Internet. Now we have to start finding ways that we can continue to make sure there are open platforms. So that involves a couple of different things.
One, we’re trying to make sure that Linux thrives. Our perception is that one of the big problems holding Linux back is the absence of games. I think that a lot of people — in their thinking about platforms — don’t realize how critical games are as a consumer driver of purchases and usage. So we’re going to continue working with the Linux distribution guys, shipping Steam, shipping our games, and making it as easy as possible for anybody who’s engaged with us — putting their games on Steam and getting those running on Linux, as well. It’s a hedging strategy.
I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space. I think that we’re going to lose some of the top-tier PC [original equipment manufacturers]. They’ll exit the market. I think margins are going to be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, it’s going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality. But when you start thinking about a platform, you have to address it.
This was quite a while ago and as you can imagine a lot of websites closed but I found some references to it here and there and I’m sure if you dig deeper you’ll really find some good sources for yourself.
It’s definitely a hedging strategy to invest in Linux so that they’re not beholden to Microsoft.
Sadly none of those links, unless I somehow missed it, directly quote Newell, but given the contemporaneous discussion on it and the citations linking to pages that no longer work, it seems benefit of the doubt is reasonable.
I think if Newell has gone on record as such, he is right to do so if MS does decide to abandon win32. Thing is though, one of the reasons win32 and even the registry have existed this long is so they don’t alienate developers.
It’s speculative, but my opinion is the only way MS would ever do this is if they decide to create a completely brand new operating system (one that eschews NTOSKRNL, NTFS, the registry, etc, in favor of something new).
However, it looks to me as if they’re all in on Windows 11 with this nonsensical Recall and other “AI” craziness, they don’t seem to be focusing on much else — so maybe that’s a good thing :)
I just posted a few links to the other person who responded to me and you can follow those and there is more detail there.
But basically if Microsoft were to try, which they did, try and move to their own app store, which removes win32, then all of Valve’s games ( in the store) will no longer become relevant over time, on the Windows platform.
You don’t just spend millions and millions and millions of dollars on Linux for no reason at all. It’s not like he’s a fanboy, he’s a businessman, and he’s protecting his business.
Win32 is a collection of windows APIs that allows applications to freely take use of windows.
The problem being that 99% of current windows applications use win32 APIs, so all those programs would just be dead unless the alternative is api compatible.
So in order to kill win32 Microsoft would have to release an api compatible alternative.
So what would happen if they did that?
That is kill win32 and add an api compatible alternative?
Best case scenario: nothing changes.
Worse case scenario: every single standalone exe would be dead
So why kill win32?
Power; by lets say locking the new api behind the windows store, they basically fully lock all applications to ever be redistributed to said windows store, killing steam, itch, epic games, and every single exe in existence.
The only way applications would exist is by approval of Microsoft.
Now obviously this will never happen.
The entire premise of win32 shutting down is made up by people not understanding what they are talking about.
However as a corporation, valve rather spends money on an alternative to be able to tell Microsoft, that they are able to significantly influence window’s desktop marketshare, than to let Microsoft do whatever they want, even if it is mostly just smaller things.
Yes, I don’t think it’s just about the execution of Win32 code, but also the possibility of MS using marketing techniques and dirty manipulation methods to give themselves advantages within the Windows platform to sway the general public to their store in a similar manner as how they push their browser, their MS Teams communication platform, their One Drive Cloud Storage, their search engine, their data-collection tech, their assistant, etc.
when you develop games using win32, you decide how you want to deliver the game to the customer (Steam,Epic, your OWN website, GoG)
Steam can take a cut from your sales but if you don’t like their policy you can deliver the games via other platforms. You have choice
enter UWA. Games developed using this platform HAS to be delivered via Windows Store. The devs need to get a key which needs to be purchased from Microsoft.#
Microsoft can disable Win32 apps, if they want, and all games (other than which are on Windows store) will stop working
games from other platforms won’t work on PC since they are win32. Your choice is removed
Microsoft can ban you from the store, removing you ability to install apps
Some people are making fun about this, but if you look at the history of the steam store and how Gabe is focusing so heavily on Linux, it is because he is concerned that Microsoft is going to shut down Win32 and he will be absolutely screwed.
Due to this, he is creating a safety net for himself and is pushing Linux hard as an alternative to Microsoft Windows so that he can not be so reliant on Microsoft and what they choose to do and not do. Specifically when it comes to win 32.
Got a source for this?
https://venturebeat.com/games/valves-gabe-newell-talks/
Some of what Gabe Newell said:
Goddamn can this man be any more GOATed?
This was quite a while ago and as you can imagine a lot of websites closed but I found some references to it here and there and I’m sure if you dig deeper you’ll really find some good sources for yourself.
It’s definitely a hedging strategy to invest in Linux so that they’re not beholden to Microsoft.
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=12517&cid=315125
https://forum.level1techs.com/t/valve-ceo-says-windows-8-would-mean-a-catastrophe-for-windows-pc-gaming/142
And this one even has Tim Sweeney talking about it.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/07/now-tim-sweeney-thinks-that-microsoft-will-use-windows-10-to-break-steam/
It’s very old news and the search engine that don’t really reward old articles too much, but it’s out there.
Thank you!
Sadly none of those links, unless I somehow missed it, directly quote Newell, but given the contemporaneous discussion on it and the citations linking to pages that no longer work, it seems benefit of the doubt is reasonable.
I think if Newell has gone on record as such, he is right to do so if MS does decide to abandon win32. Thing is though, one of the reasons win32 and even the registry have existed this long is so they don’t alienate developers.
It’s speculative, but my opinion is the only way MS would ever do this is if they decide to create a completely brand new operating system (one that eschews NTOSKRNL, NTFS, the registry, etc, in favor of something new).
However, it looks to me as if they’re all in on Windows 11 with this nonsensical Recall and other “AI” craziness, they don’t seem to be focusing on much else — so maybe that’s a good thing :)
Can you expand on this please, why is Gabe so worried about win32?,
I just posted a few links to the other person who responded to me and you can follow those and there is more detail there.
But basically if Microsoft were to try, which they did, try and move to their own app store, which removes win32, then all of Valve’s games ( in the store) will no longer become relevant over time, on the Windows platform.
You don’t just spend millions and millions and millions of dollars on Linux for no reason at all. It’s not like he’s a fanboy, he’s a businessman, and he’s protecting his business.
I guess I’m still confused on the why, is it because valve doesn’t want to update their games?
Why is win32 so important?
Win32 is a collection of windows APIs that allows applications to freely take use of windows. The problem being that 99% of current windows applications use win32 APIs, so all those programs would just be dead unless the alternative is api compatible. So in order to kill win32 Microsoft would have to release an api compatible alternative.
So what would happen if they did that? That is kill win32 and add an api compatible alternative? Best case scenario: nothing changes. Worse case scenario: every single standalone exe would be dead
So why kill win32? Power; by lets say locking the new api behind the windows store, they basically fully lock all applications to ever be redistributed to said windows store, killing steam, itch, epic games, and every single exe in existence. The only way applications would exist is by approval of Microsoft.
Now obviously this will never happen.
The entire premise of win32 shutting down is made up by people not understanding what they are talking about. However as a corporation, valve rather spends money on an alternative to be able to tell Microsoft, that they are able to significantly influence window’s desktop marketshare, than to let Microsoft do whatever they want, even if it is mostly just smaller things.
Yes, I don’t think it’s just about the execution of Win32 code, but also the possibility of MS using marketing techniques and dirty manipulation methods to give themselves advantages within the Windows platform to sway the general public to their store in a similar manner as how they push their browser, their MS Teams communication platform, their One Drive Cloud Storage, their search engine, their data-collection tech, their assistant, etc.
Win32 is what basically all non MS store apps use. It’s a bit old and bloated.