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A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
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I‘m a sysadmin and hobby dev and I am trying to make it work as a daily driver and make it a full replacement of iOS.
Still needs work but I‘d say 80% of my needs are met and I‘m already ahead of iOS in other things (like a full terminal, being able to make my own backups over ssh, being able to control what data leaves my device).
Two things are astonishing: the amount of progress mobile linux projects make and the obliviousness one (I too) has as a proprietary software. We expect things to „just work“ yet we pay for proprietary software either by cash or our data yet most of us are unaware or unwilling to contribute money or work to the cause (translations, writing helpful or nice documentations).
I suggest you give it a whirl and look at it from a „what would I be able to let go of“ perspective.
I think this is a wonderful advice. I have this idea that the limits of Linux Mobile could actually be a huge help to rethink the relationship with the smartphone and to build a new, healthier one.
I totally agree with you’re observation about how proprietary software spoiled and ruined us in some ways… I think we all need to recover from this, and that’s why I have so much faith in postmarketOS (and Linux Mobile in general).
That said, the last time I tried it there were some actual showstoppers for me, but maybe it’s better now so I’ll definitely give it another go. Thank you!
If you don’t mind, I have a couple of questions to help me to have a better idea on how to approach it.
Do you use Phosh? I tried Plasma Mobile, Phosh and GNOME. Now for me, Plasma was a big no because of a trillion of various bugs. I had the feeling that Phosh was the more optimized and overall the best option, but GNOME had more features (notably the amazing gestures, which were limited and a bit buggy on Phosh). What do you think about it?
And… One thing I thought that could really be a problem (beside the banking apps, that’s just a lost cause I think) were some messaging apps. I think that if you use just matrix and xmpp you could be just fine on pmOS, but I use Signal on a daily basis and sometime I’m forced to use WhatsApp. I think that one could use unofficial flatpaks, but would still be necessary to have an Android phone to manage login from time to time… Is that right? How do you manage your messaging apps?
Sorry for all the questions, but I think that it’s pretty rare to have the opportunity to talk about this with someone who uses pmOS on a daily basis so I sort of had to 😄
Don’t worry! I‘m glad you asked. :)
Currently I use pmos 23.10 stable with phosh. Depending on the software, using stable vs unstable/edge/etc makes a huge difference.
That said current situation is quite good. I use podcasts, phone, matrix (fluffychat) bridged to whatsapp, signal and discord, nextcloud and a couple more things.
Currently I‘m trying to port the bitwarden desktop app which is quite the endeavor.
All in all I love the OS but its nowhere near consumer ready. Peeps who can give constructive and detailed feedback are needed hence my issue with corporate „polish“ and the resulting standards.
Banking is dead at this point and so is the camera for now.
The „separate phone for login“ could technically be a docker container or vm but easiest is some crap phone so their security measures dont get triggered (locking you out).
Its just a bad situation in total. Phone monopolists ruling with an iron fist, having most governments and companies jump through loops for them.
But yes, linux on phone def is the future imo. I think I might check ubuntu touch too just to know what I might be missing.
I hope this helps. Feel free to ask more.
Thank you for the reply!
Okay, I will 😄
Yeah, that’s why I was thinking that using edge could have been a good idea, on software so rapidly evolving. Do you use stable because you fear sudden bugs and breakages or for other reasons?
So you’re using only fluffychat with bridges? I mean, you have not installed WhatsApp, Signal or Discord clients, right? But there are unofficial flatpak which should work I guess. Or bridges are the only choice? I ask this because while I think bridges are neat, they have their problems and I’m not sure I would happily and painlessly be able to use only them.
And, you’re still using an iOS/Android device from time to time to prevent automatic logout from WhatsApp’s bridge and manage Signal’s login, right? Well I think you should have a device anyway for banking apps. Yes I saw banking it’s dead on Linux and this may be alone one reason to keep an Android device around. It’s a good idea to use a container, although I agree on the risk of being locked out. Though for other android-only apps mendeavor
You know, to be honest the last time I tried pmOS it was specifically the unusable state of Bitwarden and Freetube which made me think “okay, maybe it’s better to wait more time before trying to using it”. But after reading your messages I think the time has definitely come :) I’d love to contribute too!
Anyway, one last thing. How do you primarily install software? Apk and flatpak should be the easiest ways I think…? Because I’m talking about flatpak when I say that I tried, but now that I think about it I’m not sure at all that I was supposed to install graphical apps like that, it was just the more obvious way to do it.
No. I installed it because they said its better for daily use because the other versions might break. I have since used it with few real issues and no serious (as in requires another machine to get back in a working state or serious knowledge of the inner workings). I might try different things but not without having done and checked everything in stable. :)
yes
Not on the linux phone
I dont install things I dont need. I have a configuration that works with every service I need and has zero breakage as of now.
I dont know. It is the most complete and privacy friendly compromise that I know of. The more privacy route would be to abandon whatsapp but I guess for you its the same as for me: not an option at this point.
Bridges work 99% of the time for me, maybe 100 messages+ per day. It has been months and I had to reconnect two bridges, one time each. This is not proprietary stuff with billion dollar budgets so in my book that is perfect with no issues. If I want stuff to “just work” I pay someone to write it for me. Can someone break it by sending huge files, have 1000 messages per hour or 1000 contacts to sync? Of course. But thats not my usecase so I cant swear to you that everything will always work perfectly. Again. Companies are investing insane amounts of money in these services and if you dont want to be the product and you dont want to pay for it, thats what you get. :)
yes, same for discord btw. I am still testing mobile linux so I have two phones anyway.
Bitwarden as a firefox extension works okay but it needs work. The standalone app which I’m trying to port is pretty tough, not sure what the exact reason is.
APK, if that doesnt have anything or the program doesnt work well I try flatpak. A LOT of stuff is available. No comparison to more popular platforms though. Mobile linux is in the infancy of infancy so whoever uses it rn is a pioneer in my book. It works well but peeps who use it need to have the correct mindset or they will hate it: You’re not in kansas anymore. Stuff will break and you’re supposed to help fix it and not let out your frustration on others as they dont on you. :)
I hope that helps.
Thanks mate!!
On the bridge thing I 100% agree, although for the way they works you’ll have to deal with your messages being unencrypted. On WhatsApp (and Discord, I guess? I don’t use it) this probably is still far better than having the app installed, on Signal it’s a bit of a shame because it’s the only app with proprietary-level usability while being real FOSS and e2e. So using it with the bridge kind of defeat the purpose of e2e I guess, but still I’m definitely gonna try it again.
I have a OnePlus 6 and a Poco F1, so I’ll just choose one and give pmOS another go :)
I‘m running it on the OP6 and its pretty good.
The bridge is still encrypting stuff afaik, just not e2e but from the server to the recepient.
Also, signal is only foss on the client side, no? The server seems proprietary to me.
Good luck and feel free to update.
No, they stopped updating the source code of the server at some point, but then they started again. Anyway Signal is far from my favorite messagging app, I actually don’t like it at all, but it’s still e2e encrypted, so it’s (kinda) fine for me.
It is. But for a message to be bridged it have to be decrypted by the bridge first, then re-encrypted. So there’s a step where the message is in plain text and you have to trust the matrix server which manages the bridge. Don’t get me wrong, that’s surely better than to trust Meta and other big corporations, but still not ideal.
Anyway thanks for all the useful insights, I’ll try to remember to update! 😄