Campaigns Can Now See What You Watch on TV. It’s Changing Everything.
www.notus.orgTelevisions that can stream platforms like Hulu or Max usually come loaded with technology that collects information on what viewers are watching, and buyers consent to have their viewing tracked when they open their new TV and click through terms of service agreements. Sometimes, data firms can connect those viewing habits to a voter’s phone or laptop via their IP address, promising a trove of information about an individual and the ability to track them across screens.
Other times, firms focus on dividing households into groups based on what they’re watching, how they use their TVs and how many campaign ads they’re seeing, which is a boon to political campaigns eager to target specific groups of voters. Connecting this data to voter files is increasingly a focus — a move that adds individual voting habits into the mix.
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn’t great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don’t promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
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Eye M8tey! 🏴☠️🦜🦜🏴☠️
If ye hold yer privacy dearer than a chest full of doubloons, then steer o’er to yer own private island, uncharted on any map o’ the seas, to enjoy yer piles o’ loot without fear o’ some scallywag chartin’ yer course!
They keep giving us more reasons to sail the high seas.
AARGH!
The year is 2024. I purchase a nice TV to shun nearly all of its features and never connect it to the internet because it’s designed to be actively malicious.
While I get your point, the TV isn’t nice because of its app features. If it’s a nice TV it’s because of its display panel and features like upscaling, interpolation, etc., and it’s being subsidized by those built-in apps and tracking functionality.
By purchasing a nice TV, never using the built-in apps, and never connecting the TV to the Internet (or better yet connecting it to a segregated VLAN and dropping literally all traffic to/from the TV), you’re costing the company money on that TV set. Or probably more accurately you’re like the credit card user that maximizes their point rewards while paying off the balance every paycheck, you’re profiting off people who are in debt to their credit card company for whatever reason.
To be clear, I have a G series LG OLED that is not only in its own VLAN with no traffic allowed in or out, but I drop all DNS that isn’t coming from my pihole at the WAN port on my edge router, I watch stuff from a secondary device, and most everything I watch is pirated and streamed locally anyway, so I’m definitely subsidizing my entertainment with the privacy invasion of others. If I could get an OLED tv without any of the built in OS stuff I absolutely would, and would be willing to pay more for a SKU with that stuff stripped out, but afaik that’s just not possible.
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I’m just basing on the fact that two identical OLED panels, one in a 32” LG monitor without the app features and the other in a 55” LG Television with the app features, are about equivalently priced. I could be totally wrong though idk. It quacks like a duck getting fucked ¯\(ツ)/¯
Honestly, if I’m costing the company that made my TV money just because I refuse to let it track me, all the better. They deserve it for trying to crab that shit up my ass in the first place!
If you can’t produce a product without subsidizing it by pumping it full of data tracking nonsense then you don’t deserve to be a fucking company.
Fuck that and you know it. They only produce this garbage because they get more value out of your data not because they can’t fucking manufacture a good affordable tv.
The problem isn’t just subsidization. It is that they make way more money over time with ads. One time profit vs long term profit
Exactly! It’s more profitable for them to manufacture spyware over building a functional machine. There is no excusing their behaviour, they can manufacture a tv that’s good and affordable, they just won’t.
Shit like this is why we need more antitrust laws and consumer protections. Break up some monopolies already!!
Im sure they could pump out LED panels without spyware at pretty much the price they’re selling at now, sure. I have doubts they could produce OLED panels without the spyware garbage and keep them at an affordable price for someone making the median annual salary or lower in the US. You just have to look at OLED monitors to get a rough picture of this. A 34” OLED monitor sells for roughly the same price as a 48” OLED television.
I’m not trying to excuse television manufacturers at all here, it’s bullshit and I hate it, I just don’t have much choice if I want a TV. I just try to be as invaluable as possible to them after that. I don’t see what monopolies have to do with anything here though, there’s a huge of TV manufacturers, from Sony, LG, and Samsung down to bottom of the barrel Chinese brands like TCL and stuff.
Consumer protection laws that prevent data siphoning by TV manufacturers? Yes please. I’m just not sold on there being any antitrust/monopoly shenanigans going on.
99% of people will buy the cheaper TV with tracking, it probably not sustainable to sell the expensive one without. This stuff just needs to be banned
Not many manufacturers would sell a TV with tracking and one without. The one without would be leaving money on the table, so even the premium very expensive tvs are tracking.
The more and more of stuff like this I see, the kore I just wan’t to buy the cheapest possible mini pc, make it tv remote controllable and just put it to open jellyfin directly that’s connected to my home media server.
And then hook it up to the most dumb tv I can fijd with decent picture quality.
I wish there were more high quality dumb TVs. Most of the dumb TVs I can find today are both very expensive and lack the features I’m looking for like HDR and 120hz+ frame rates.
I know the argument is that the privacy invasions are subsidizing the cost of the TV but I have yet to see non-anecdotal evidence of that and suspect that the price of the TV would be the same either way because the market will only support so much expense.
Just don’t let it connect to internet.
There are no good dumb teevees for home use
That is the solution. Connect your box to the internet, never the TV.
It’s becoming harder to find TVs that will operate without a network connection
I’ve never heard of this happening before. What does the TV do?
Won’t do anything until it is hooked back to the internet
Even if you just passing your device to it?
Yeah, I’ve seen it on some Samsungs and LGs that get real pissy when the TV itself isn’t online. I’ve also heard of some brands (that I don’t remember atm) that won’t even let you go through the initial setup without a connection.
/Microsoft announced new foray into TVs…
It will work at a premium cost, and only until they start selling them with LTE chips buried away in the motherboard.
So many devices come with those now… I open up my products and remove the card, the antenna, or the whole board if possible.
Which do?
For example, my sleep apnea machine had a wifi for home and a LTE modem. Data gathered by the machine was sent off-site…no reports available on the host. Privacy policy read it would gather info, run diagnostics on itself and the local network without explanation of what it was doing.
My sleep data could not be viewed by me, only through the 3rd party, so I ripped out the wifi board and LTE chip. I haul the machine into my doctor office so he can cycle through data on the tiny display.
He hates it, but I remind him he picked the machine without asking me if I agreed to to the data collection.
For insurance to cover it the data tells them whether you are using it or not. If you don’t meet the minimum usage they won’t pay for the machine. Buying it yourself negates that, but they can get spendy.
Do not buy Philips.
Ya fuck that. That’s why I have an IOT vlan, though even that has its caveats. Nest speakers with microphones and your sleep apnea machine have some good personal data gathering capabilities despite it.
Punish me harder daddy… No doubt on LTE chip tho haha
I use computer monitors for TVs. Mostly because they’re smaller and I don’t have that much space for stuff. Most have all those features but don’t have a smart interface. I plug them in over HDMI and make sure CEC is enabled so I can turn it on and off with a dumb remote the RasPi. Works pretty well actually.
I grabbed a display TV and haven’t hooked it up to the internet, so far so good. Could look into that.
Look for commercial models.
Such as? If you have a reasonably priced OLED dumb tv with HDR and 120FPS up your sleeve you will be my favorite internet friend.
depends on where you are, I just know that looking at an upgrade earlier this year (I REFUSE smart tvs) we found better jobs on the commercial front.
Ironically we ended up scoring one from our local buy nothing group, but I did find https://hometheateracademy.com/best-dumb-non-smart-tvs/ if it helps.
Where are you getting 120hz content for tv?
Game consoles.
Game consoles
What I want to know also
I’m biased but I think everyone should do this. You can basically find the hardware you’d need out of a dumpster, and then you can slowly build your library from there.
Don’t even need to mini pc, we use one of the silverstone amp-sized cases with an asrock
Also we don’t jellyfin we just use vlc on a win7 base. Means i can run retroarch and UT on the tv as well :)
Problem is, wife is the one who insists on having TVs and I know she won’t use Jellyfin.
All spouses can be taught to use Plex or Jellyfin. It just takes the right approach and some determination. Mine is now sailing the high seas with the finest of us.
Sorry, did you sleep with my spouse or what?
I’m sorry, but yes. She couldn’t resist my encyclopedic knowledge of self-hosted streaming options.
Okay I will learn more about self-hosted streaming options and hit spouses on the street.
Change the wife
That’s what I did a couple months ago and I regret not doing it sooner. I got a Beelink SER and loaded it with Endeavour OS, a web browser, torrent client, and VLC.
The best and possibly only dumb TV brand is Spectre.
https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html?sort=tbt.parent_pdtype&order=DESC
Source: framework CEO https://community.frame.work/t/in-defense-of-dumb-tvs/160
Disclaimer: have not tried them.
*Sceptre, not spectre.
(I misspell it almost every time, too.)
When my parents got a new TV, I made sure they bought a Sceptre. So far it’s working fine.
As others have said, just buy a TV that meets your A/V needs and don’t connect it to the internet.
I know everyone talks about Jellyfin these days, but Kodi is an excellent option too if you don’t need streaming to multiple devices. I use Kodi via LibreElec on an rpi4 and it’s been great. All media is stored on my home server and shared over Samba, but you can easily store it locally on the box if you don’t have a server.
For music streaming, I run a separate instance of miniDLNA on my server, since I like to browse-by-directory for my music instead of relying solely on metadata. This also allows you to stream to any DLNA-friendly device on the LAN.
I’ve digitized my disc collection and just keep the physical media as a backup. The local library has a huge selection of media too…and if we don’t use it, we’ll lose it.
I honestly don’t know why you wouldn’t just do jellyfin, unless you’re limited by your hardware and kodi somehow has less overhead?
They’re both free I guess. You can try them on and see how well they serve tour use case
JF’s UI hasn’t really done it for me for whatever reason…I have it running in an LXC already and mostly use it at my workstations.
Jellyfin has a much nicer user interface and is overall a better way of doing things. But libreElec and Kodi are great at being a cheap open source client that handles lots of different codecs without much fuss.
I have a JF instance running on Proxmox as well, but it hasn’t won me over yet. Still, I know a lot of folks do prefer it to Kodi and others so there must be something to it.
I have my own Emby server and I would love to have a dumb TV instead of my current one. Problem is its 4K screen has absolutely SPOILED me and I don’t wanna go back. And I’ve heard it’s difficult to find a 4K dumb TV.
Also, and most importantly, I’m the kind of person who uses something until it won’t work anymore. The way I see it is “My TV is currently 6 years old and yet still working fine so why would I buy another when I don’t need one.” (Why generate unnecessary waste?) So, I’m waiting until it dies to get another.
Our Smart TV is offline 99% of the time, so I rarely see the smart features. We’ll sometimes have company stay over and they’ll connect the Ethernet to use the built-in streaming apps with their own credentials, so it’s a nice option to have and it doesn’t impact us otherwise.
that’s basically what i had. a cheap laptop for a ‘streaming device’ and media player with a k400 keyboard with trackpad. connected to a monitor to start, then a cheap tv. don’t have a ‘media server’ though, just a pile of hard drives (externals, or internals with usb adapter or ‘dock’).
the tv eventually did get hooked up to wifi but i only use it for a couple ‘free’ apps that require no signin and work through pihole ok. mostly the ‘tv’ is playing a random playlist.
I’ve tried to do this a few times, and unfortunately it feels like you really have to go all in on managing your own content library.
Like many, I had stopped pirating shit when netflix etc were “good”.
None of the streaming services want you to use them outside of their official sites/apps, so you end up being limited to like 720p when running them through kodi etc.
If you find torrenting to be distasteful, you can get a cheap USB DVD reader and rip dvds instead.
It’s still technically considered infringement, but at least it’s completely private.
Any recommendations for easily ripping DVDs? I have hundreds that I need to digitize, and drives that need to be filled.
I never touched streaming services, mostly cause they came to my country 2years ago and were already shit they are now, plus cost me too much to even afford one.
So I just have torrenting setup automated with arr software. ( Don’t even need a vpn because my country has no copyright laws so free to torrent whatever I wan’t )
That’s what I’ve done. It’s the way to go. Got a TV from the panel manufacturer that’s so basic you can see light shining through the back when it’s on lol
I second this. And the transition was made easy due to anti-consumer practices. Plus, you can take your media on-the-go for free
I Chromecast content from my computer and phone.
If I don’t watch/stream stuff otherwise, and my TV isn’t connected to anything else I’m aware of, is my data being exfiltrated? It’s a Sony from ~2015
Probably safe to assume that the streaming app on your phone is collecting the same data about your viewing habits, whether or not you Chromecast it to another device.
Sure, the apps are recording all of that, my question is around my TV
Some TVs have tech called ACR (Automatic Content Recognition) that literally reads pixels on the screen for identifying information about what content is being displayed. If your TV has ACR enabled, it’s possible it’s tracking what you watch, even if you’re viewing it through a device like Chromecast.
If your TV doesn’t have ACR or the TV itself isn’t connected to the Internet, then you’re probably fine.
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McDonald’s!
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It’s more expensive; but look for Digital Signage.
It’s times like this I like my own server full of Linux ISO’s to keep me busy.
For a long time I have disconnected my TV from WiFi, I watch the news in the morning and watch movies on the official website of public TV or on Pluto TV on the computer or via Bluetooth on TV for free and without ads. It has been clear to me for a long time that the prefix “smart…” on electronic devices is synonymous with “spy…”.
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Y’all still get ads beyond spytube sponsor shit?