I’m tired of seeing devs on Discords and Slack channels jerk themselves raw with it every time they get any kind of negative feedback whatsoever on a change they pushed.
From the naming it’s clear that GE wants this to be the new standard, but it’s not really a new standard. This is porting Steam’s launcher, which already exists, to non-Steam clients.
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Unification of standards only works if everyone agrees to use it and only it (i.e. mobile phones and USB C), otherwise you’re just adding another one to the pile.
This is a bigger issue for hardware than software. This is why we can use heroic, proton, lutris, or whatever. And most programmers who can offload a part of their code onto another project that is doing the job well will. That’s exactly how Linux started.
It is a big issue for software. But usually companies are happy to try to trap users into their own thing, or developers are too arrogant to work with thee work on another developer.
You realize we’re talking about multiple projects based on WINE, which has had updates supplied by Valve, who has made a Linux distribution, which is based on multiple different projects all packaged together in one big install file, right?
Yes, you will get ego and “not invented here” syndrome in software, even in open software. But these groups are literally based on building off another person or group’s idea to make something better or easier.
Haven’t you heard of the stories ego or hubris that make projects split and die? Maybe you’re one of those people who think Linux was already fine 10 years ago and users should try a little bit to use it instead of setting for Windows without thinking?
Diversity is a strength. But hubris is a weakness. Inventing a new standard every 6 months is stupid.
C is 50 years old. Http is 30 years old, as is python. We forgot about fortrans, and it is a good thing. But you don’t build lasting things on technologies that are revolutionised every 6 months.
My worry is Valve will look at the project and shut it down. Remember, Valve doesn’t care about your Linux, it only cares about money. Not having users on their Client side platform means less revenue and less ads to show.
This doesn’t affect valve at all though. It’s borrowing their tech that they’ve made open source, and figuring out how to use it elsewhere outside of steam.
Actually, it’ll benefit them. More eyes are on proton and any fix will benefit everyone, including games played via steam.
It’s really up to the corporation whether they think it will benefit them. I agree that Valve has so far not been hostile toward GE, and it looks like proton has a very permissive license, but if it were any other digital storefront, doing anything to allow users to consume your content without using your storefront would be seen as at attack on their bottom line.
I’m actually curious how this new standard would potentially benefit other storefronts who haven’t natively supported Linux yet. If it’s going to make things easier for existing open source launchers, then it would also make things easier for competing launchers. I know as a consumer, I want GOG, Epic, EA, etc. supporting Linux, but does valve? I don’t know, maybe, maybe not. On the one hand, maybe they don’t want competition in their niche space, on the other hand, maybe they’ll do anything to take marketshare from msft.
Valve’s Proton is open source but is it also free to use and distribute in commercial software? Cuz if so, there’d be nothing stopping GOG or Epic from implementing it already, they don’t need this project at all
Someone else already explained the licenses, but to your second point, yes, nothing stops any other launcher from using proton, which is what all the other open source launchers do. And yes, no one “needs” this project, just like we don’t “need” any standards for anything, but it could make things a lot cleaner and easier to support.
Valve’s Proton is open source but is it also free to use and distribute in commercial software?
Yes.
Valve’s Proton code is licensed under the BSD licence, which is a “do anything you like with this code” licence.
Wine code is under the LGPL. You can ship this in commercial software as long as you “make the source code available” (which, assuming the distributor isn’t modifying the Wine code further, can be achieved by just linking people back to the main Wine project code repository).
DXVK is licensed under zlib, which is functionally the same as the BSD licence.
Valve also worries about relying on Microsoft. They want people to transition to Linux since it’s open and no corporation can go “all games have to go through my store for 30% commission!” The proton fixes that these clients make Valve can also probably utilize to also make and I’m sure the devs for these also contribute to proton so it’s a win for everyone.
Proton is open source. Valve has also been incredibly supportive of and is actively contributing to an open ecosystem for Linux and SteamOS. Desktop mode in SteamOS exists so end users can install whatever tools they want on it.
Afaik proton is BSD-3, and everything else important is part of wine which is LGPL. Sure, valve can be hostile if they choose, but they haven’t given themselves the legal tools to do much.
You’re the troll if you can’t explain why no one owns all the code. You can’t even accept the lawsuits that the people of America brought against to Valve Corporation.
Dont talk like you have anything worthwhile going when you refuse to acknowledge their crimes.
The code isn’t the operating systems that Valve owns. networking 101, something connects to make the thing work. Not the code that follows the rules. Learn about it.
Isn’t one of the features of bottles etc that you can select different versions of wine on the fly per-app? This sounds like it’s meant to supersede that
It sounds like it’ll replace that functionality, but not eliminate the ability to select different versions. So instead of using whatever Bottles is doing, Bottles would use this mechanism to select WINE versions.
I think people are getting the wrong impression because it said “unify” in the title. This is mostly GE want to obsolete wine-ge/winetricks and focus on proton-ge and protontricks/fixes. Nothing out of his works, at least for now. Everything else should work the same.
It really depends whether he got the devs of “Lutris, Heroic, Legendary, Bottles, etc.” to agree to use the unified runtime before starting this project. As long as he gets most of the big players to join then it will actually become the only standard worth using.
relevant xkcd
This is beautiful
Finally, a good meme to call out this NPC response
Can we get one for this too?
I’m tired of seeing devs on Discords and Slack channels jerk themselves raw with it every time they get any kind of negative feedback whatsoever on a change they pushed.
This good?
Damn, never saw this meme. Where does it get used at?
It’s a meme based on a brilliant comic strip.
From the naming it’s clear that GE wants this to be the new standard, but it’s not really a new standard. This is porting Steam’s launcher, which already exists, to non-Steam clients.
I’m not sure how it’s relevant. Was anyone else even trying to make a standard? They were mostly just all doing their own thing.
Exakt denselben witz habe ich auf dem Zwietracht von Proton-GE auch gemacht haha
Lass uns schütteln die Hände
Kennste ja: 2 Dumme, 1 Gedanke. xD
Öhm, warum reden wir hier eigentlich Deutsch?
Ups ich habe nur Reznik gesehen und wusste dass er Deutscher ist. Habe voll übersehen wo wir hier eigentlich sind. War ausversehn.
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Yeah - that was my worry.
Unification of standards only works if everyone agrees to use it and only it (i.e. mobile phones and USB C), otherwise you’re just adding another one to the pile.
This is a bigger issue for hardware than software. This is why we can use heroic, proton, lutris, or whatever. And most programmers who can offload a part of their code onto another project that is doing the job well will. That’s exactly how Linux started.
It is a big issue for software. But usually companies are happy to try to trap users into their own thing, or developers are too arrogant to work with thee work on another developer.
You realize we’re talking about multiple projects based on WINE, which has had updates supplied by Valve, who has made a Linux distribution, which is based on multiple different projects all packaged together in one big install file, right?
Yes, you will get ego and “not invented here” syndrome in software, even in open software. But these groups are literally based on building off another person or group’s idea to make something better or easier.
Haven’t you heard of the stories ego or hubris that make projects split and die? Maybe you’re one of those people who think Linux was already fine 10 years ago and users should try a little bit to use it instead of setting for Windows without thinking?
Diversity is a strength. But hubris is a weakness. Inventing a new standard every 6 months is stupid.
C is 50 years old. Http is 30 years old, as is python. We forgot about fortrans, and it is a good thing. But you don’t build lasting things on technologies that are revolutionised every 6 months.
My worry is Valve will look at the project and shut it down. Remember, Valve doesn’t care about your Linux, it only cares about money. Not having users on their Client side platform means less revenue and less ads to show.
This doesn’t affect valve at all though. It’s borrowing their tech that they’ve made open source, and figuring out how to use it elsewhere outside of steam.
Actually, it’ll benefit them. More eyes are on proton and any fix will benefit everyone, including games played via steam.
It’s really up to the corporation whether they think it will benefit them. I agree that Valve has so far not been hostile toward GE, and it looks like proton has a very permissive license, but if it were any other digital storefront, doing anything to allow users to consume your content without using your storefront would be seen as at attack on their bottom line.
I’m actually curious how this new standard would potentially benefit other storefronts who haven’t natively supported Linux yet. If it’s going to make things easier for existing open source launchers, then it would also make things easier for competing launchers. I know as a consumer, I want GOG, Epic, EA, etc. supporting Linux, but does valve? I don’t know, maybe, maybe not. On the one hand, maybe they don’t want competition in their niche space, on the other hand, maybe they’ll do anything to take marketshare from msft.
Valve’s Proton is open source but is it also free to use and distribute in commercial software? Cuz if so, there’d be nothing stopping GOG or Epic from implementing it already, they don’t need this project at all
Someone else already explained the licenses, but to your second point, yes, nothing stops any other launcher from using proton, which is what all the other open source launchers do. And yes, no one “needs” this project, just like we don’t “need” any standards for anything, but it could make things a lot cleaner and easier to support.
Yes.
Valve’s Proton code is licensed under the BSD licence, which is a “do anything you like with this code” licence.
Wine code is under the LGPL. You can ship this in commercial software as long as you “make the source code available” (which, assuming the distributor isn’t modifying the Wine code further, can be achieved by just linking people back to the main Wine project code repository).
DXVK is licensed under zlib, which is functionally the same as the BSD licence.
Valve also worries about relying on Microsoft. They want people to transition to Linux since it’s open and no corporation can go “all games have to go through my store for 30% commission!” The proton fixes that these clients make Valve can also probably utilize to also make and I’m sure the devs for these also contribute to proton so it’s a win for everyone.
Proton is open source. Valve has also been incredibly supportive of and is actively contributing to an open ecosystem for Linux and SteamOS. Desktop mode in SteamOS exists so end users can install whatever tools they want on it.
Do you know what open source means?
They’re not relying on Valve’s goodwill. The license explicitly permits this.
“Third party software included and respected byproducts of Valve’s proprietary”
Legit doesn’t mean you own all the code.
Afaik proton is BSD-3, and everything else important is part of wine which is LGPL. Sure, valve can be hostile if they choose, but they haven’t given themselves the legal tools to do much.
Edit: DXVK is apparently under the zlib license.
That’s Wine/Proton not the other thing that connects to Valves severs and other components.
Eh…I think you don’t know what we’re all talking about.
Oh, didn’t notice you were the valve troll.
Carry on with your bullshit.
You’re the troll if you can’t explain why no one owns all the code. You can’t even accept the lawsuits that the people of America brought against to Valve Corporation.
Dont talk like you have anything worthwhile going when you refuse to acknowledge their crimes.
Is this the first time you’re hearing about open source software?
The code isn’t the operating systems that Valve owns. networking 101, something connects to make the thing work. Not the code that follows the rules. Learn about it.
When you just make up imaginary phantom shit, no one is going to bother refuting it.
You cannot download all the code, try it bitch i know you can’t because i also cant. Next time confirm your conspiracy theory first.
Hopefully will not be the case. Depends on whether buy-in from Heroic, Bottles, and Lutris maintainers have been secured
Considering the fact that they’re already relying on GE’s version of wine, I don’t see why they wouldn’t move on to this when it’s stable.
Isn’t one of the features of bottles etc that you can select different versions of wine on the fly per-app? This sounds like it’s meant to supersede that
It sounds like it’ll replace that functionality, but not eliminate the ability to select different versions. So instead of using whatever Bottles is doing, Bottles would use this mechanism to select WINE versions.
I think people are getting the wrong impression because it said “unify” in the title. This is mostly GE want to obsolete wine-ge/winetricks and focus on proton-ge and protontricks/fixes. Nothing out of his works, at least for now. Everything else should work the same.
It really depends whether he got the devs of “Lutris, Heroic, Legendary, Bottles, etc.” to agree to use the unified runtime before starting this project. As long as he gets most of the big players to join then it will actually become the only standard worth using.
Based on the currently Bottles dev’s plans to create Bottles Next, my guess is no
Why would that effect whether or not they would use it?
This was my first thought as well